Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric..

"Reader in Invisible Writings" <markfoweraker DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47d9636a$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> William Black wrote:
>> "Reader in Invisible Writings" <markfoweraker DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
>> message news:47d8d173_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>
>> People have wanted a ban on repeats of 'It ain't half hot Mum'
>>> because the lead Indian character is played by an white actor in make
>>> up.
>>
>> Which people?
>
> WASPs of a certain class and culture who lead the whole PC brigade. The
> ones who want Winterval instead of Christmas (but also want Diwali to be
> celebrated) to stop upsetting other religions who have said often that
> they are not offended by Christmas and don't want their religious
> festivals commercialised.

My experience of people like that is that they're not Christian either.

The main reason they do such things is a political attack on what they see
as 'Daily Mail values'.

That they never actually get anywhere before the inevitable attack by the
Daily Mail and its ghastly minions is part of the process...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

Reader in Invisible Writings wrote:
> Anery wrote:
>> On Mar 13, 9:07 am, Alec Cawley <a....RemoveThis@spamspam.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Anery wrote:
>>>> On Mar 11, 10:21 pm, Alec Cawley <a....RemoveThis@spamspam.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> For TLF/TCOM, I thing Twoflower works better as an Omerican than an
>>>>> Oriental, though he comes from the Aurient, which is a clue. A slight
>>>>> cultural unexpectedness in that we Brits expect to share a language
>>>>> with
>>>>> Americans, and A-M definitely does not with TF initially. Though he
>>>>> must
>>>>> be quite a linguist - I couldn't get from nothing to
>>>>> reflected-sound-of-underground-spirits in about a day.
>>>> It was Rincewind who was the linguist. Twoflower was speaking to him
>>>> in the language of the beTrobi, which he was already familiar with
>>>> before. Reflected-sound-of-underground-spirits itself was probably an
>>>> Agathean term, as well as inn-sewer-ants, or more precisely
>>>> Rincewind's interpretations of Twoflower's pronunciation.
>>> But he managed to get enought of a conversation with the innkeeper to
>>> sell him inn-sewer-ants without Rincewind's help. Of course he used his
>>> own language for words that Morporkian doesn't have, but the rest of the
>>> conversation must have been intelligible. Rincewind would have foreseen
>>> the disaster that happened.
>>
>> "You give me (points at appropriate amount of A-M money). Your hotel,
>> tavern, lodging house, inn, hospice, caravanserai on fire, you get
>> (shows appropriate amount of golden rhinu). This called inn-sewer-
>> ants."
>> It was more about people skills and the talk of gold than linguistic
>> skills, IMO. And luck, FCVO the word. And Twoflower might have been to
>> some extent prepared for such sort of conversation. It was his job,
>> after all.
>>
>> Anery
> Please excuse me if this is obvious, but the point being made is that
> Two Flower would have used his phrase book to sell inn-sewer-ants in
> case of fire, conflagration, inflammable destruction, incineration,
> burning down.
>
> Also Reflected-sound-of-underground-spirits is a de-construct of
> Echo-gnome-ics. Gnomes being understood as underground fairies (cf
> Feegles are fairy folk)

I know that, obviously. But my experience of visiting strange lands is
that, with the best will in the world, the first day it is very hard to
get past simple concrete sentences like "More beer please", "I come from
YYYY", "Where is the toilet", "I have been robbed", and "which way to
thw whore pits?" Complex conditionals, even misunderstood, come a lot
further down the line. Insurance sales have an inherent subjunctive ("If
you were to by the policy...".
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

In a speech called frbd74$o37$1@registered.motzarella.org,
William Black <william.black RemoveThis @hotmail.co.uk> said:
> "Sabremeister Brian" <bpwakeling RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:63sjv9F20p5inU1@mid.individual.net...
>> In a speech called franuo$ndh$1@registered.motzarella.org,
>> William Black <william.black RemoveThis @hotmail.co.uk> said:
>>> "Reader in Invisible Writings" <markfoweraker RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
>>> wrote in message
>>> news:47d8d173_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>> People have wanted a ban on repeats of 'It ain't half hot Mum'
>>>> because the lead Indian character is played by an white actor
>>>> in make up.
>>>
>>> Which people?
>>>
>>> My experience is that when an old movie or TV show is on where
>>> a European actor in make-up plays an Indian they watch and
>>> laugh along with everyone else.
>>>
>>> The single exception seems to be 'Carry on up the Khyber',
>>> which Indians seem to find funny in a very different way to
>>> Europeans...
>>
>> Would that be in the same way that even amateur historians
>> find Braveheart funny?
>>
>
> No.
>
> The bits they find funny are the bits that are nasty about
> Indian aristocrats and Muslim fanatics.
>
> The Brits laugh at the dinner party scene, considered by many
> to be the funniest scene in British cinema.

By whom? Like every Carry On film, the first time you see, maybe
it's funny. The second time and after, cringeingly un-funny.


--
www.sabremeister.me.uk
www.livejournal.com/users/sabremeister/
Use brian at sabremeister dot me dot uk to reply
////
0_//////
\'///////
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

"Sabremeister Brian" <bpwakeling.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:63tdshF29ic9gU1@mid.individual.net...
> In a speech called frbd74$o37$1@registered.motzarella.org,
> William Black <william.black.DeleteThis@hotmail.co.uk> said:
>> "Sabremeister Brian" <bpwakeling.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:63sjv9F20p5inU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> In a speech called franuo$ndh$1@registered.motzarella.org,
>>> William Black <william.black.DeleteThis@hotmail.co.uk> said:
>>>> "Reader in Invisible Writings" <markfoweraker.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote in message
>>>> news:47d8d173_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>>> People have wanted a ban on repeats of 'It ain't half hot Mum'
>>>>> because the lead Indian character is played by an white actor
>>>>> in make up.
>>>>
>>>> Which people?
>>>>
>>>> My experience is that when an old movie or TV show is on where
>>>> a European actor in make-up plays an Indian they watch and
>>>> laugh along with everyone else.
>>>>
>>>> The single exception seems to be 'Carry on up the Khyber',
>>>> which Indians seem to find funny in a very different way to
>>>> Europeans...
>>>
>>> Would that be in the same way that even amateur historians
>>> find Braveheart funny?
>>>
>>
>> No.
>>
>> The bits they find funny are the bits that are nasty about
>> Indian aristocrats and Muslim fanatics.
>>
>> The Brits laugh at the dinner party scene, considered by many
>> to be the funniest scene in British cinema.
>
> By whom?

Well, the ICA for one.

Like every Carry On film, the first time you see, maybe
> it's funny. The second time and after, cringeingly un-funny.

I find the better costumed ones (Khyber, Henry, Cleo) that pinched the
sets and costumes from blockbusters to be repeatedly entertaining.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

"Richard Corfield" <Richard.Corfield.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnftjeoq.38i.Richard.Corfield@gateway.internal.littondale.dyndns.org...

> Holi coincides with Good Friday this year. I plan to pop along, but hope
> the coloured powder doesn't stain!

It does, but that's not the main problem with Holi.

Drink the 'special lassi' (laced with bhang) and you may wake up wondering
where the day went...


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

On 2008-03-14, William Black <william.black DeleteThis @hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Holi coincides with Good Friday this year. I plan to pop along, but hope
>> the coloured powder doesn't stain!
>
> It does, but that's not the main problem with Holi.
>
> Drink the 'special lassi' (laced with bhang) and you may wake up wondering
> where the day went...

And not being able to drive home.

Is that a risk in the UK? You'd think something like bhang would be
outlawed here, even for religious festivals.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfield DeleteThis @gmail.com>
_/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street,
_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ except in the Twilight Zone
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

"Richard Corfield" <Richard.Corfield RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnftlbd3.38i.Richard.Corfield@gateway.internal.littondale.dyndns.org...
> On 2008-03-14, William Black <william.black RemoveThis @hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Holi coincides with Good Friday this year. I plan to pop along, but hope
>>> the coloured powder doesn't stain!
>>
>> It does, but that's not the main problem with Holi.
>>
>> Drink the 'special lassi' (laced with bhang) and you may wake up
>> wondering
>> where the day went...
>
> And not being able to drive home.
>
> Is that a risk in the UK? You'd think something like bhang would be
> outlawed here, even for religious festivals.
>

I honestly don't know.

The past two years I've spent Holi in India.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

On 13 Mar 2008, Reader in Invisible Writings <markfoweraker.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> William Black wrote:
>> "Reader in Invisible Writings" <markfoweraker.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> message news:47d8d173_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>
>> People have wanted a ban on repeats of 'It ain't half hot Mum'
>>> because the lead Indian character is played by an white actor in
>>> make up.
>>
>> Which people?
>
> WASPs of a certain class and culture who lead the whole PC brigade.
> The ones who want Winterval instead of Christmas (but also want Diwali
> to be celebrated) to stop upsetting other religions who have said
> often that they are not offended by Christmas and don't want their
> religious festivals commercialised.

Not the Winterval myth again.

In 1997, Birmingham Council noticed that lots of cultures with a presence
in the city had festivals between October and January and, in a spirit of
inclusiveness, coined the term "Winterval" to cover them all. Not to
replace any of them, but as a blanket term. The term became more
prevalent in 1998 (when "Winterval" celebrations included a big
illuminated sign reading "Happy Christmas, Birmingham").

The Daily Mail brigade then complained that Birmingham Council was trying
to get rid of Christmas, because their reason for existence is to be
outraged about things, and if there isn't anything they have to make
something up. In 2006, the Daily Mail brigade complained about the term
again, although it's not clear anyone was actually using it in any
context whatsoever.

--
Dave
"I thought Billie Piper was an oil rig."
-Sandi Toksvig, The News Quiz
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

On 2008-03-14, William Black <william.black.TakeThisOut@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Drink the 'special lassi' (laced with bhang) and you may wake up
>>> wondering
>>> where the day went...
>>
>> And not being able to drive home.
>>
>> Is that a risk in the UK? You'd think something like bhang would be
>> outlawed here, even for religious festivals.
>>
>
> I honestly don't know.
>
> The past two years I've spent Holi in India.
>

I'll beware the drinks, though at Jaanmasthmi (I think that's how it's
spelled, maybe), they had the special sweetened milk as opposed to the
normal water so it's knowing what's safe.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfield.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
_/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street,
_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ except in the Twilight Zone
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

Ayup all...

I think that using 'Havelock Vetinari' is just expedient to the
director and Pterry, for the majority of casual fans/viewers to
identify 'The Patrician' Character.

They would have realised that he is the character most instantly
recognised when mentioned. Fine detail is for afp'ers and af-b'ers and
convention attendees only, i guess, and therefore the minority...

I still woulda preferred Alan Rickman. mind you, he's probably still
busy on H-P and the Half-Blood Prince....
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

feanor1999 wrote:
> Ayup all...
>
> I think that using 'Havelock Vetinari' is just expedient to the
> director and Pterry, for the majority of casual fans/viewers to
> identify 'The Patrician' Character.
>
> They would have realised that he is the character most instantly
> recognised when mentioned. Fine detail is for afp'ers and af-b'ers and
> convention attendees only, i guess, and therefore the minority...
>
> I still woulda preferred Alan Rickman. mind you, he's probably still
> busy on H-P and the Half-Blood Prince....

I did and bit of analysis on the COM Patrician which I repeat here....

The information regarding the Patrician in COM is limited.
COM (Corgi 1985)
p38 the Patrician has spies
p41-2 the Patrician
smiled, but with his mouth only - V
exquisitely organised spy system - V
cradled his chins in a beringed hand - non V?
eyes as small and hard as beads - non V? and V
clever argument and getting self incrimination - V
thick fingers - non V
private audience - V
crystallised jellyfish - no proof he eats them - a V type test?
candid briefing to lock someone in - V
candid prophesy - V
dry humor (sue your face for slander) - V
p62-3 the Patrician and the expert
jellyfish offer turned down - V
allowed himself the luxury of a scowl - V
I begin to see - V in learning mode?
Who is (Assassins) president? - non V
People should stay where put - V

most of the references are very like Vetinari and those that are not
could be explained by loosing weight and learning. They do not sound
like most former Patricians who would have physically tortured Rincewind
rather than mentally (you gladly take your rack with you). It is
unlikely that people would have refused Snapcase's offer of delicacies
for fear of retribution.

My son's theory is that the Guilds would have been more likely to elect
a soft looking, fine dining, rich living, Lord Vetinari (in the normal
Patrician mould as it were) rather than a hard one, so he may have
fattened up to get the job.

Your mileage is bound to vary.
Besides which TP says it is Vetinari - but written by an inferior author

--
Reader in Invisible Writings.. Something to Ponder upon!
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric.. 

On Mar 22, 11:37�pm, Reader in Invisible Writings
<markfowera....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> feanor1999 wrote:
> > Ayup all...
>
> > I think that using 'Havelock Vetinari' is just expedient to the
> > director and Pterry, for the majority of casual fans/viewers to
> > identify 'The Patrician' Character.
>
> > They would have realised that he is the character most instantly
> > recognised when mentioned. Fine detail is for afp'ers and af-b'ers and
> > convention attendees only, i guess, and therefore the minority...
>
> > I still woulda preferred Alan Rickman. mind you, he's probably still
> > busy on H-P and the Half-Blood Prince....
>
> I did and bit of analysis on the COM Patrician which I repeat here....
>
> The information regarding the Patrician in COM is limited.
> COM (Corgi 1985)
> p38 the Patrician has spies
> p41-2 the Patrician
> � � �smiled, but with his mouth only - V
> � � �exquisitely organised spy system - V
> � � �cradled his chins in a beringed hand - non V?
> � � �eyes as small and hard as beads - non V? and V
> � � �clever argument and getting self incrimination - V
> � � �thick fingers - non V
> � � �private audience - V
> � � �crystallised jellyfish - no proof he eats them - a V type test?
> � � �candid briefing to lock someone in - V
> � � �candid prophesy - V
> � � �dry humor (sue your face for slander) - V
> p62-3 the Patrician and the expert
> � � �jellyfish offer turned down - V
> � � �allowed himself the luxury of a scowl - V
> � � �I begin to see - V in learning mode?
> � � �Who is (Assassins) president? - non V
> � � �People should stay where put - V
>
> most of the references are very like Vetinari and those that are not
> could be explained by loosing weight and learning. �They do not sound
> like most former Patricians who would have physically tortured Rincewind
> rather than mentally (you gladly take your rack with you). �It is
> unlikely that people would have refused Snapcase's offer of delicacies
> for fear of retribution.
>
> My son's theory is that the Guilds would have been more likely to elect
> a soft looking, fine dining, rich living, Lord Vetinari (in the normal
> Patrician mould as it were) rather than a hard one, so he may have
> fattened up to get the job.
>
> Your mileage is bound to vary.
> Besides which TP says it is Vetinari - but written by an inferior author
>
> --
> Reader in Invisible Writings.. � Something to Ponder upon!

Ayup Runes...

> Besides which TP says it is Vetinari - but written by an inferior author

I read your post first-time round and I understood...

I'm just reminding you that 'The Patrician', even if he were the
Librarian, or Ponder Stibbons, would STILL be Havelock Vetinari... so
no worries... and isn't the Patrician just the Uber Politician/Tyrant
ever?
 >> Stay informed about: Confirmed in case noone knew....Jeromy Irons is the Patric..