 |
|
 |
|
Next: PhilDick and Wilhelm Reich
|
| Author |
Message |
External

Since: Nov 26, 2004 Posts: 15
|
(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:32 pm
Post subject: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings Archived from groups: alt>books>phil-k-dick (more info?)
|
|
|
January 6, 1999:
'I think what needs to be asked is not, "what is Dick's best book?," but, "what
is his most believable book?" If there is a flaw in Dick's writing, it is that
some of his plots don't quite hang together, like trying to bake a loaf of bread
out of rice flour. Things happen for the sake of the plot rather than as a
logical extrapolation of current conditions. There is a term for this: Deus ex
machina. It is almost synchronistically ironic in that Dick's contrived
conclusions are often just that, gods delivered by means of a mechanism
analogous to the crane used by the Greek dramatists. A good question for a quiz
in some future literature class on mid 20th Century novelists: "Phil Dick's
writing may be summarized by what term from Classical Greek drama?"'
--
Steve Franklin
http://www.lordbalto.com/ >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jul 25, 2004 Posts: 26
|
(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Steve Franklin" <trash RemoveThis @lordbalto.com> wrote in message
news:lgGAd.5790$Y57.46@trnddc08...
> January 6, 1999:
>
> 'I think what needs to be asked is not, "what is Dick's best book?," but,
"what
> is his most believable book?" If there is a flaw in Dick's writing, it is
that
> some of his plots don't quite hang together, like trying to bake a loaf of
bread
> out of rice flour. Things happen for the sake of the plot rather than as a
> logical extrapolation of current conditions. There is a term for this:
Deus ex
> machina. It is almost synchronistically ironic in that Dick's contrived
> conclusions are often just that, gods delivered by means of a mechanism
> analogous to the crane used by the Greek dramatists. A good question for a
quiz
> in some future literature class on mid 20th Century novelists: "Phil
Dick's
> writing may be summarized by what term from Classical Greek drama?"'
>
> --
> Steve Franklin
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.lordbalto.com/</font" target="_blank">http://www.lordbalto.com/</font</a>>
When there is no deux ex machina ending, the conclusion is usually even more
unsatisfactory, as in "Scanner Darkly". For all his often-underrated
craftsmanship
as a novel-writer, Phil wasn't very good at endings. The main reason must
be that
he wasn't any good at endings in life or in his thoughts.
I believe the worst of all is "Now Wait for Last Year", in which Dr.
Sweetscent
decides to take care of his deranged wife. The interaction between the two
of
the them throughout the novel is wrenchingly, painfully realistic and
psychologically
right on the money. The ending is just wishful thinking, of the kind that
Phil often
indulged in but knew himself that he was incapable of sticking with.
-- Bill Cleere<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 04, 2005 Posts: 8
|
(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Not so long ago, Bill Cleere wrote:
> When there is no deux ex machina ending, the conclusion is usually even more
> unsatisfactory, as in "Scanner Darkly".
Wait a minute. I always thought that was perfect.... the drugged
out remnants are unknowingly growing the drugs and Fred has just
enough animal memory of his past to maybe crack the thing wide open.
Starting with putting the clipping of the flower in his pocket.
Maybe I'm remembering it being better than it was (it's been 8 years!)
Donna needs her Coca-Cola!!
--
Joe Morris Live music in Atlanta
jolomo DeleteThis @gmail.com <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html" target="_blank">http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jul 25, 2004 Posts: 26
|
(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Joe Morris" <jolomo RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message news:crf3sg$ba1$2@reader1.panix.com...
> Not so long ago, Bill Cleere wrote:
> > When there is no deux ex machina ending, the conclusion is usually even more
> > unsatisfactory, as in "Scanner Darkly".
>
> Wait a minute. I always thought that was perfect.... the drugged
> out remnants are unknowingly growing the drugs and Fred has just
> enough animal memory of his past to maybe crack the thing wide open.
> Starting with putting the clipping of the flower in his pocket.
I guess what bugged me about the ending was that the whole portrait
of the drug scene was so gritty and realistic, and the ending transported
it into the realm of the simplistic. Mind you, I believe that the Government
had plenty to do with the whole drug scene, and still does, but not as
the master string-puller which set the whole thing in motion.
-- Bill Cleere
> Maybe I'm remembering it being better than it was (it's been 8 years!)
>
> Donna needs her Coca-Cola!!
> --
> Joe Morris Live music in Atlanta
<font color=purple> > jolomo RemoveThis @gmail.com <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html</font" target="_blank">http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 04, 2005 Posts: 8
|
(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Not so long ago, Bill Cleere wrote:
> I guess what bugged me about the ending was that the whole portrait
> of the drug scene was so gritty and realistic, and the ending transported
> it into the realm of the simplistic. Mind you, I believe that the Government
> had plenty to do with the whole drug scene, and still does, but not as
> the master string-puller which set the whole thing in motion.
Hmmmm, never got the impression the government was involved.
Thought it was the "rehab" centers
--
Joe Morris Live music in Atlanta
jolomo.TakeThisOut@gmail.com <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html" target="_blank">http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jul 25, 2004 Posts: 26
|
(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Joe Morris" <jolomo RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message news:crfn35$jij$1@reader1.panix.com...
> Not so long ago, Bill Cleere wrote:
> > I guess what bugged me about the ending was that the whole portrait
> > of the drug scene was so gritty and realistic, and the ending transported
> > it into the realm of the simplistic. Mind you, I believe that the Government
> > had plenty to do with the whole drug scene, and still does, but not as
> > the master string-puller which set the whole thing in motion.
>
> Hmmmm, never got the impression the government was involved.
> Thought it was the "rehab" centers
Now I feel like *I'm* losing it. The rehab centers were a Gov
operation, weren't they?
Toss you for who looks it up.
OK.....call it in the air.
-- Bill Cleere
"That's where I normally get them, but sometimes you need
something after hours, and you have to pay for it." (Dolores~, aps)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 04, 2005 Posts: 8
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:40 am
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Not so long ago, Bill Cleere wrote:
> Now I feel like *I'm* losing it. The rehab centers were a Gov
> operation, weren't they?
> Toss you for who looks it up.
> OK.....call it in the air.
I can check tonight. Now, I'm probably gonna end up re-reading the
whole darn thing.... PKD has a way of sneaking into my to-read stack
--
Joe Morris Live music in Atlanta
jolomo DeleteThis @gmail.com <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html" target="_blank">http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 04, 2005 Posts: 8
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Not so long ago, Joe Morris wrote:
> Not so long ago, Bill Cleere wrote:
> > Now I feel like *I'm* losing it. The rehab centers were a Gov
> > operation, weren't they?
> > Toss you for who looks it up.
> > OK.....call it in the air.
> I can check tonight. Now, I'm probably gonna end up re-reading the
> whole darn thing.... PKD has a way of sneaking into my to-read stack
All right. Here's the smoking gun: p.266 vintage
The Executive Director of New-Path "knew something--U.S.Drug Restriction
knew something--that most of the public, even the police didn't know."
OK, so the gov't was in on it... why? I must admit I don't see what's
in it for them. Unless New-Path's sales made 'em alot of cash.
Guess I'll need to re-read
--
Joe Morris Live music in Atlanta
jolomo RemoveThis @gmail.com <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html" target="_blank">http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jul 25, 2004 Posts: 26
|
(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Joe Morris" <jolomo.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message news:cri24s$h6d$1@reader1.panix.com...
> Not so long ago, Joe Morris wrote:
> > Not so long ago, Bill Cleere wrote:
> > > Now I feel like *I'm* losing it. The rehab centers were a Gov
> > > operation, weren't they?
>
> > > Toss you for who looks it up.
>
> > > OK.....call it in the air.
>
> > I can check tonight. Now, I'm probably gonna end up re-reading the
> > whole darn thing.... PKD has a way of sneaking into my to-read stack
>
> All right. Here's the smoking gun: p.266 vintage
>
> The Executive Director of New-Path "knew something--U.S.Drug Restriction
> knew something--that most of the public, even the police didn't know."
>
> OK, so the gov't was in on it... why? I must admit I don't see what's
> in it for them. Unless New-Path's sales made 'em alot of cash.
>
> Guess I'll need to re-read
Yeah...it never made much sense to me. I think I need to read the ending
again too.
-- Bill Cleere >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 17, 2005 Posts: 13
|
(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Steve Franklin wrote:
> January 6, 1999:
>
> 'I think what needs to be asked is not, "what is Dick's best book?," but, "what
> is his most believable book?" If there is a flaw in Dick's writing, it is that
> some of his plots don't quite hang together, like trying to bake a loaf of bread
> out of rice flour. Things happen for the sake of the plot rather than as a
> logical extrapolation of current conditions. There is a term for this: Deus ex
> machina. It is almost synchronistically ironic in that Dick's contrived
> conclusions are often just that, gods delivered by means of a mechanism
> analogous to the crane used by the Greek dramatists. A good question for a quiz
> in some future literature class on mid 20th Century novelists: "Phil Dick's
> writing may be summarized by what term from Classical Greek drama?"'
>
> --
> Steve Franklin
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.lordbalto.com/</font" target="_blank">http://www.lordbalto.com/</font</a>>
>
>
I've got a feeling that PKD's main problem was lack of time. He was not
paid very well and had to write books very fast. As a result, he's got a
lot of discrepancies in his books. I think that it can explain the
endings. He just did not have enough time to polish them and come up
with plausible ones. Another reason could be that he had to sell his
novels so the endings were to offset their wierdness.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 26, 2005 Posts: 8
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Foxy <foxy DeleteThis @foxyhole.com> wrote:
>I've got a feeling that PKD's main problem was lack of time. He was not
>paid very well and had to write books very fast. As a result, he's got a
>lot of discrepancies in his books. I think that it can explain the
>endings. He just did not have enough time to polish them and come up
>with plausible ones. Another reason could be that he had to sell his
>novels so the endings were to offset their wierdness.
Actually, I think that the way Phil rarely wrapped his books up with a
neat ending is one of the reasons that they appeal to me so much. I
get the feeling of having been privy to the character's lives for a
short period of time, after which they go off fumbling their way along
in life, much as we all do. Having a neat<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jul 25, 2004 Posts: 26
|
(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Blair" <blairr@newsguy-com> wrote in message news:52vcv094t1ka06hcaotvj5k14i3p9bp27r@4ax.com...
> Foxy <foxy.RemoveThis@foxyhole.com> wrote:
>
> >I've got a feeling that PKD's main problem was lack of time. He was not
> >paid very well and had to write books very fast. As a result, he's got a
> >lot of discrepancies in his books. I think that it can explain the
> >endings. He just did not have enough time to polish them and come up
> >with plausible ones. Another reason could be that he had to sell his
> >novels so the endings were to offset their wierdness.
>
> Actually, I think that the way Phil rarely wrapped his books up with a
> neat ending is one of the reasons that they appeal to me so much. I
> get the feeling of having been privy to the character's lives for a
> short period of time, after which they go off fumbling their way along
> in life, much as we all do. Having a neat
From Roger Zelazny's introduction to the Vintage edition of
"Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep":
"These characters are often victims, prisoners, manipulated men
and women. It is generally doubtful whether they will leave the
world with less evil in it than they found there. But you never know.
They try. They are usually at bat in the last half of the ninth inning
with the tying run on base, two men out, two strikes and three balls
riding, with the possibility of the game being called on account of
rain at any second. But then, what is rain? Or a ballpark?"
-- Bill Cleere
"I prefer the pleasure of writing bits of nonsense to that of wearing
an embroidered coat which costs 800 francs." (Stendahl)
Now Playing: Mr. Ferdinand Joseph "Jelly Roll Morton" Lamothe
introduces the concept of jazz music (1939)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://home.comcast.net/~bcleere/introjrm.mp3" target="_blank">http://home.comcast.net/~bcleere/introjrm.mp3</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jan 26, 2005 Posts: 8
|
(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:04 am
Post subject: Re: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Bill Cleere" <bcleere DeleteThis @philipkdick.com> wrote:
>
>"Joe Morris" <jolomo DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message news:cri24s$h6d$1@reader1.panix.com...
>> Not so long ago, Joe Morris wrote:
>> > Not so long ago, Bill Cleere wrote:
>> > > Now I feel like *I'm* losing it. The rehab centers were a Gov
>> > > operation, weren't they?
>>
>> > > Toss you for who looks it up.
>>
>> > > OK.....call it in the air.
>>
>> > I can check tonight. Now, I'm probably gonna end up re-reading the
>> > whole darn thing.... PKD has a way of sneaking into my to-read stack
>>
>> All right. Here's the smoking gun: p.266 vintage
>>
>> The Executive Director of New-Path "knew something--U.S.Drug Restriction
>> knew something--that most of the public, even the police didn't know."
>>
>> OK, so the gov't was in on it... why? I must admit I don't see what's
>> in it for them. Unless New-Path's sales made 'em alot of cash.
>>
>> Guess I'll need to re-read
>
>Yeah...it never made much sense to me. I think I need to read the ending
>again too.
It's a control mechanism: The Government control the manufacture and
sale of the drugs. They thereby are able to control to a great extent
the lives of those people addicted to the drugs; and to justify the
existence of a large police presence to supposedly curtail the
distributiom of said drugs, but which in fact are used to crack down
on any dissidents.
Phil was only extrapolating from what many people still suspect is the
case in reality - after all, the "drug problem" and crime in general
never seem to go away, despite ever increasing resources supposedly
being directed towards stopping it - much the same could also be said
of our "terrorist" problem of late...
Blair >> Stay informed about: Deus Ex Machina in PhilDick's Writings |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
|
You can post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|