Doors of His face/Lamps of His Mouth Question

In article <2Hk7c.15098$vo6.38307@news1.mts.net>,
Chris <CansS5 RemoveThis @netscape.net> writes:
 >
 >
 >that expendable guy wrote:
 >
  >> Apropos of nothing, here's a question: if YOU could have credit for
  >> writing any one Zelazny SHORT story, which one would you choose? For
  >> me it's a bit of a coin toss: either TKTD or "The Game of Blood and
  >> Dust", which I just find fascinating in its concept.

One problem is the definition of a short story. A lot of Zelazny's best
work seems to have been what one could call either long short stories or
novellas. If you'll accept it as a short story, then I would probably
choose "He Who Shapes".
 >
 >I always loved "For a Breath I Tarry" from Last Defender of Camelot.
 >The whole story comes together great from the set up of the conflict
 >between the god and devil computers to the little machine's trying to
 >quantify art and such in attempt to know humans to the neat and
 >satisfying ending.
 >
That's the favourite SF short story, regardless of author, of a friend
of mine. She's a very good judge of a story, but I disagree with her -
and you - about "For a Breath I Tarry". The story seemed too
"artificial" for my taste. It didn't feel that it had "grown naturally",
but rather that Zelazny had had the ending in view from the start and
had forced the story to go there whether it "wanted" to or not.
--
John Hall

"Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong."
Oscar Wilde<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Doors of His face/Lamps of His Mouth Question 

John Hall wrote:

  >>I always loved "For a Breath I Tarry" from Last Defender of Camelot.
  >>The whole story comes together great from the set up of the conflict
  >>between the god and devil computers to the little machine's trying to
  >>quantify art and such in attempt to know humans to the neat and
  >>satisfying ending.
  >>
 >
 > That's the favourite SF short story, regardless of author, of a friend
 > of mine. She's a very good judge of a story, but I disagree with her -
 > and you - about "For a Breath I Tarry". The story seemed too
 > "artificial" for my taste. It didn't feel that it had "grown naturally",
 > but rather that Zelazny had had the ending in view from the start and
 > had forced the story to go there whether it "wanted" to or not.

I don't know that I'd rate it as my ultimate favorite. Depending on the
criteria; technique, viseral response, sentimentality, stories like Born
of Man and Woman, The Deathbird, Pamela's Get, Winter Was Hard, The
Hedge Knight, all probably surpass it in my mind. Even amongst Zelazny's
works Home is the Hangman and 24 Veiws of Mt. Fuji vie with it for my
favorite. But it always pops into my head first. I think the things you
mention not liking may be what makes it work me; the compactness and
smooth flow of the tale, along with the obvious parallels and unabashed
happy ending make it one that I wish I could associate my name with.
Just a quintessential short that's always stayed with me.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Doors of His face/Lamps of His Mouth Question 

In the original The Last Defender of Camelot collection, Zelazny refers in
the beginning of Comes Now the Power being written "on one of the blackest
days in my memory". He later comments that he wrote three stories that
day, the above, Divine Madness and But Not The Herald (both were in the
collected Door.

patrick

who's having trouble with bellsouth news.... go figure.





On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:20:37 +0000, that expendable guy wrote:

 >
 >
 > I think I recall Zelazny referring to a story in "The Doors of of his
 > Face/Lamps of His Mouth" collection as one of his worst, or something
 > like that, in the collection's forward. My copy was destroyed in a
 > fire along with much else, but I think I recall that. I always
 > wondered what story he meant. IMO, The TITLE story is TERRIBLE, an
 > annoying unreadable pastiche of cliches, a true rarity of badness
 > among Zelazny tales. I HOPE he did NOT mean the BEAUTIFUL "The Keys to
 > December" (TKTD). The line "Thus does life repay those who would serve
 > her fully." (I may be misremembering slightly) sends chills through me
 > still.
 >
 > Maybe he meant "Lucifer", which struck me as pretty pointless.
 >
 > Apropos of nothing, here's a question: if YOU could have credit for
 > writing any one Zelazny SHORT story, which one would you choose? For
 > me it's a bit of a coin toss: either TKTD or "The Game of Blood and
 > Dust", which I just find fascinating in its concept.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Doors of His face/Lamps of His Mouth Question 

I think that's probably what "that expendable guy" was remembering.
The thought that Zelazny would refer to one of the stories in the
Doors collection as "one of his worst" is an obvious mistake. Zelazny
made it clear in some of his other collections that there were a few
stories that he wasn't all that proud of and wished they would remain
forgotten; this is specifically why some of his early stories never
appeared in one of his short story collections.


Patrick Hulman <phulman DeleteThis @nospambellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.03.23.04.31.33.532843 DeleteThis @nospambellsouth.net>...
 > In the original The Last Defender of Camelot collection, Zelazny refers in
 > the beginning of Comes Now the Power being written "on one of the blackest
 > days in my memory". He later comments that he wrote three stories that
 > day, the above, Divine Madness and But Not The Herald (both were in the
 > collected Door.
 >
 > patrick
 >
 > who's having trouble with bellsouth news.... go figure.
 >
 > On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:20:37 +0000, that expendable guy wrote:
  > >
  > > I think I recall Zelazny referring to a story in "The Doors of of his
  > > Face/Lamps of His Mouth" collection as one of his worst, or something
  > > like that, in the collection's forward. My copy was destroyed in a
  > > fire along with much else, but I think I recall that. I always
  > > wondered what story he meant. IMO, The TITLE story is TERRIBLE, an
  > > annoying unreadable pastiche of cliches, a true rarity of badness
  > > among Zelazny tales. I HOPE he did NOT mean the BEAUTIFUL "The Keys to
  > > December" (TKTD). The line "Thus does life repay those who would serve
  > > her fully." (I may be misremembering slightly) sends chills through me
  > > still.
  > >
  > > Maybe he meant "Lucifer", which struck me as pretty pointless.
  > >
  > > Apropos of nothing, here's a question: if YOU could have credit for
  > > writing any one Zelazny SHORT story, which one would you choose? For
  > > me it's a bit of a coin toss: either TKTD or "The Game of Blood and
  > > Dust", which I just find fascinating in its concept.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Doors of His face/Lamps of His Mouth Question 

that expendable guy <godot_showed_up.RemoveThis@justice.com> wrote in message news:<q9qr50tnggv3d5rqtviu6r076jt1lm4ria.RemoveThis@4ax.com>...
 > I think I recall Zelazny referring to a story in "The Doors of of his
 > Face/Lamps of His Mouth" collection as one of his worst, or something
 > like that, in the collection's forward. My copy was destroyed in a
 > fire along with much else, but I think I recall that. I always
 > wondered what story he meant. IMO, The TITLE story is TERRIBLE, an
 > annoying unreadable pastiche of cliches, a true rarity of badness
 > among Zelazny tales.


The title story being "The Doors of of his Face/Lamps of His Mouth"?
Do you really dislike the story that much? Somehow that one would not
make my list of Zelazny's worst, should I compile such a list.

I thought the remark in 'Camelot referred to stories that were
published in magazines and that he did not want republished ... so we
do not find them in his collections, unless some of them made it into
Fire and Ice.

__________________

For a good Prime, call:
29819592777931214269172453467810429868925511217482600306406141434158089<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Doors of His face/Lamps of His Mouth Question 

I could have sworn it was in the beginning of my old softcover copy of
Doors, but maybe memory is playing tricks.






On 23 Mar 2004 07:03:58 -0800, ckovacs DeleteThis @mac.com (ckovacs) wrote:

 >I think that's probably what "that expendable guy" was remembering.
 >The thought that Zelazny would refer to one of the stories in the
 >Doors collection as "one of his worst" is an obvious mistake. Zelazny
 >made it clear in some of his other collections that there were a few
 >stories that he wasn't all that proud of and wished they would remain
 >forgotten; this is specifically why some of his early stories never
 >appeared in one of his short story collections.
 >
 >
 >Patrick Hulman <phulman DeleteThis @nospambellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.03.23.04.31.33.532843 DeleteThis @nospambellsouth.net>...
  >> In the original The Last Defender of Camelot collection, Zelazny refers in
  >> the beginning of Comes Now the Power being written "on one of the blackest
  >> days in my memory". He later comments that he wrote three stories that
  >> day, the above, Divine Madness and But Not The Herald (both were in the
  >> collected Door.
  >>
  >> patrick
  >>
  >> who's having trouble with bellsouth news.... go figure.
  >>
  >> On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:20:37 +0000, that expendable guy wrote:
   >> >
   >> > I think I recall Zelazny referring to a story in "The Doors of of his
   >> > Face/Lamps of His Mouth" collection as one of his worst, or something
   >> > like that, in the collection's forward. My copy was destroyed in a
   >> > fire along with much else, but I think I recall that. I always
   >> > wondered what story he meant. IMO, The TITLE story is TERRIBLE, an
   >> > annoying unreadable pastiche of cliches, a true rarity of badness
   >> > among Zelazny tales. I HOPE he did NOT mean the BEAUTIFUL "The Keys to
   >> > December" (TKTD). The line "Thus does life repay those who would serve
   >> > her fully." (I may be misremembering slightly) sends chills through me
   >> > still.
   >> >
   >> > Maybe he meant "Lucifer", which struck me as pretty pointless.
   >> >
   >> > Apropos of nothing, here's a question: if YOU could have credit for
   >> > writing any one Zelazny SHORT story, which one would you choose? For
   >> > me it's a bit of a coin toss: either TKTD or "The Game of Blood and
   >> > Dust", which I just find fascinating in its concept.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Doors of His face/Lamps of His Mouth Question 

In article <55ea4867.0403251459.2cdbdca9.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>,
Terry <NTuser_Man.DeleteThis@msn.com> writes:
 >that expendable guy <godot_showed_up.DeleteThis@justice.com> wrote in message news:<q9qr50tnggv3d5rqtviu6r076jt1lm4ria.DeleteThis@4ax.com>...
  >> I think I recall Zelazny referring to a story in "The Doors of of his
  >> Face/Lamps of His Mouth" collection as one of his worst, or something
  >> like that, in the collection's forward. My copy was destroyed in a
  >> fire along with much else, but I think I recall that. I always
  >> wondered what story he meant. IMO, The TITLE story is TERRIBLE, an
  >> annoying unreadable pastiche of cliches, a true rarity of badness
  >> among Zelazny tales.
 >
 >
 >The title story being "The Doors of of his Face/Lamps of His Mouth"?
 >Do you really dislike the story that much? Somehow that one would not
 >make my list of Zelazny's worst, should I compile such a list.

I remember not liking that story the first time I read it, then
rereading it some years later and thinking that it was brilliant. So,
for me, maybe it depends on what sort of mood I am in.
--
John Hall
"If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts;
but if he will be content to begin with doubts,
he shall end in certainties." Francis Bacon (1561-1626)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Doors of His face/Lamps of His Mouth Question 

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:35:22 +0000, John Hall
<nospam_nov03.TakeThisOut@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

 >In article <55ea4867.0403251459.2cdbdca9.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>,
 > Terry <NTuser_Man.TakeThisOut@msn.com> writes:
  >>that expendable guy <godot_showed_up.TakeThisOut@justice.com> wrote in message news:<q9qr50tnggv3d5rqtviu6r076jt1lm4ria.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>...
   >>> I think I recall Zelazny referring to a story in "The Doors of of his
   >>> Face/Lamps of His Mouth" collection as one of his worst, or something
   >>> like that, in the collection's forward. My copy was destroyed in a
   >>> fire along with much else, but I think I recall that. I always
   >>> wondered what story he meant. IMO, The TITLE story is TERRIBLE, an
   >>> annoying unreadable pastiche of cliches, a true rarity of badness
   >>> among Zelazny tales.
  >>
  >>
  >>The title story being "The Doors of of his Face/Lamps of His Mouth"?
  >>Do you really dislike the story that much? Somehow that one would not
  >>make my list of Zelazny's worst, should I compile such a list.
 >
 >I remember not liking that story the first time I read it, then
 >rereading it some years later and thinking that it was brilliant. So,
 >for me, maybe it depends on what sort of mood I am in.

Yes, and I've always been a Zelazny nut. There's always got to be at
least one or two a person doesn't like, I suppose. But I'll seek out a
copy and reread the story, see if it isn't better the second go round.
I miss "The Keys to December" anway. I have to replace everything. I
miss "Auto-da-Fe" as well--I think that's Camelot.

Some days I think "Lord of Light" is the most brilliant novel ever
written, in the perfect balance and interlocking it achieves between
prose and tale. Maybe that's waxing overrhapsodic, but the man's prose
is just blinding in its beauty so often.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Doors of His face/Lamps of His Mouth Question 

memory is playing tricks. I've got the new ibooks soft, the 1st edition hb,
trade and a couple of the editions and none of them has a foreward, afterword
or so much as editior comments.
Thats not the case with The Last Defender or Unicorn Variations or Frost and
Fire.


patrick



In article <mea660p1m3he5ukf4rda3de8uofv6ksfut.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
godot_showed_up.DeleteThis@justice.com says...
 >
 >I could have sworn it was in the beginning of my old softcover copy of
 >Doors, but maybe memory is playing tricks.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Doors of His face/Lamps of His Mouth Question