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External
Since: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 76
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:31 pm
Post subject: Re: End Of Eternity And Time Travel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: mn>humor, others (more info?)
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In alt.books.isaac-asimov dwight.thieme RemoveThis @gmail.com <dwight.thieme RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
:> : What would happen if Eternity built a time kettle to travel back in
:> : Eternity's physiotime to an earlier physiotime?
:> According to the novel, that's not possible -- Eternity exists outside
:> of the passage of time in the regular universe, but physiotime is not
:> reversible.
: At one point, Harlan almost encounters a later version of himself (and
: of course, he later on almost encounters an earlier version.) Suppose
: they step into into Eternity together at the same time; where will
: they go? Either one will end up in an earlier physiotime, or one will
: end up in a later physiotime.
No, each will end up in Eternity at the physiotime appropriate to the
physiotime he is currently experiencing. If they were to meet and then
leave Time simultaneously, they would no longer be together when they
got into Eternity. It's like two people waiting at a bank of elevators.
If they get into two different elevators simultaneously, they will end up
on different floors even though each one got on his elevator at the same
time as the other. This is why I have said that _The End of Eternity_ makes
my brain hurt.
-----
Richard Schultz schultr RemoveThis @mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad." |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 715
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:31 pm
Post subject: Re: End Of Eternity And Time Travel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: mn>humor, others (more info?)
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Richard Schultz wrote:
> In alt.books.isaac-asimov dwight.thieme.DeleteThis@gmail.com <dwight.thieme.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> :> : What would happen if Eternity built a time kettle to travel back in
> :> : Eternity's physiotime to an earlier physiotime?
>
> :> According to the novel, that's not possible -- Eternity exists outside
> :> of the passage of time in the regular universe, but physiotime is not
> :> reversible.
>
> : At one point, Harlan almost encounters a later version of himself (and
> : of course, he later on almost encounters an earlier version.) Suppose
> : they step into into Eternity together at the same time; where will
> : they go? Either one will end up in an earlier physiotime, or one will
> : end up in a later physiotime.
>
> No, each will end up in Eternity at the physiotime appropriate to the
> physiotime he is currently experiencing. If they were to meet and then
> leave Time simultaneously, they would no longer be together when they
> got into Eternity. It's like two people waiting at a bank of elevators.
> If they get into two different elevators simultaneously, they will end up
> on different floors even though each one got on his elevator at the same
> time as the other. This is why I have said that _The End of Eternity_ makes
> my brain hurt.
What if the earlier Harlan grabs hold of the later Harlan and then activates the
"return to Eternity" device? |
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External
Since: Jun 16, 2007
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:09 pm
Post subject: Re: End Of Eternity And Time Travel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: mn>humor, others (more info?)
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On Jun 18, 11:31 am, schu....TakeThisOut@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
> In alt.books.isaac-asimov dwight.thi....TakeThisOut@gmail.com <dwight.thi....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> :> : What would happen if Eternity built a time kettle to travel back in
> :> : Eternity's physiotime to an earlier physiotime?
>
> :> According to the novel, that's not possible -- Eternity exists outside
> :> of the passage of time in the regular universe, but physiotime is not
> :> reversible.
>
> : At one point, Harlan almost encounters a later version of himself (and
> : of course, he later on almost encounters an earlier version.) Suppose
> : they step into into Eternity together at the same time; where will
> : they go? Either one will end up in an earlier physiotime, or one will
> : end up in a later physiotime.
>
> No, each will end up in Eternity at the physiotime appropriate to the
> physiotime he is currently experiencing. If they were to meet and then
> leave Time simultaneously, they would no longer be together when they
> got into Eternity. It's like two people waiting at a bank of elevators.
> If they get into two different elevators simultaneously, they will end up
> on different floors even though each one got on his elevator at the same
> time as the other. This is why I have said that _The End of Eternity_ makes
> my brain hurt.
On what do you base this assertion? Is there some way Eternity tags
elementary particles so that they 'know' when they came from? If
Harlan II gets the drop on Harlan I, knocks him out, and lugs him off
to Eternity, Harlan I will not cross into the same physiotime? What
about items like books? If Harlan I drops off a book from his
physiotime into Noys' apartment, can Harlan II retrieve it can carry
it back into his own physiotime?
Suppose Harlan II changes clothes with Harlan I in the hopes of
impersonating his earlier double. Does Harlan II arrive naked? >> Stay informed about: End Of Eternity And Time Travel |
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External
Since: Aug 18, 2004
Posts: 39
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:43 pm
Post subject: Re: End Of Eternity And Time Travel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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: "dwight.thieme@gmail.com" <dwight.thieme.RemoveThis@gmail.com>
: Is there some way Eternity tags
: elementary particles so that they 'know' when they came from? If
: Harlan II gets the drop on Harlan I, knocks him out, and lugs him off
: to Eternity, Harlan I will not cross into the same physiotime? What
: about items like books? If Harlan I drops off a book from his
: physiotime into Noys' apartment, can Harlan II retrieve it can carry
: it back into his own physiotime?
:
: Suppose Harlan II changes clothes with Harlan I in the hopes of
: impersonating his earlier double. Does Harlan II arrive naked?
If Harlan II ate a meal Harlan I brought...
Wayne Throop throopw.RemoveThis@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw >> Stay informed about: End Of Eternity And Time Travel |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 715
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:09 pm
Post subject: End Of Eternity And Time Travel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: mn>humor, others (more info?)
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In Eternity, which is a big temporal field outside Reality in which the
Eternals live and work, time passes, and the people grow older. This
passage of time is known as "physiotime". Andrew Harlan has spent two
physioyears teaching Cooper Primitive History, and the project to sent
Cooper back to the 24th century to invent time travel seems to have
taken several physiodecades. Early in Eternity's history in physiotime,
Eternity had painstakingly built up several hundred Sections when it
obtained a matter duplicator which it used to duplicate Sections all the
way to the end of the world.
What would happen if Eternity built a time kettle to travel back in
Eternity's physiotime to an earlier physiotime? >> Stay informed about: End Of Eternity And Time Travel |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 715
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:17 pm
Post subject: End Of Eternity And Time Travel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In Eternity, which is a big temporal field outside Reality in which the
Eternals live and work, time passes, and the people grow older. This
passage of time is known as "physiotime". Andrew Harlan has spent two
physioyears teaching Cooper Primitive History, and the project to sent
Cooper back to the 24th century to invent time travel seems to have
taken several physiodecades. Early in Eternity's history in physiotime,
Eternity had painstakingly built up several hundred Sections when it
obtained a matter duplicator which it used to duplicate Sections all the
way to the end of the world.
What would happen if Eternity built a time kettle to travel back in
Eternity's physiotime to an earlier physiotime? >> Stay informed about: End Of Eternity And Time Travel |
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External
Since: Jan 12, 2004
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: End Of Eternity And Time Travel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <490CB95E.2A79E3A5.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>,
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>In Eternity, which is a big temporal field outside Reality in which the
>Eternals live and work, time passes, and the people grow older. This
>passage of time is known as "physiotime". Andrew Harlan has spent two
>physioyears teaching Cooper Primitive History, and the project to sent
>Cooper back to the 24th century to invent time travel seems to have
>taken several physiodecades. Early in Eternity's history in physiotime,
>Eternity had painstakingly built up several hundred Sections when it
>obtained a matter duplicator which it used to duplicate Sections all the
>way to the end of the world.
>
>What would happen if Eternity built a time kettle to travel back in
>Eternity's physiotime to an earlier physiotime?
Dunno, but Fritz Leiber's _The Big Time specifies that you can't
set up a secondary time-travel field inside a primary one. "Or,
as Gertie Stein might have put it, you can't time travel through
the time you travel in when you time travel."
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt.DeleteThis@kithrup.com >> Stay informed about: End Of Eternity And Time Travel |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 715
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: End Of Eternity And Time Travel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <490CB95E.2A79E3A5.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >In Eternity, which is a big temporal field outside Reality in which the
> >Eternals live and work, time passes, and the people grow older. This
> >passage of time is known as "physiotime". Andrew Harlan has spent two
> >physioyears teaching Cooper Primitive History, and the project to sent
> >Cooper back to the 24th century to invent time travel seems to have
> >taken several physiodecades. Early in Eternity's history in physiotime,
> >Eternity had painstakingly built up several hundred Sections when it
> >obtained a matter duplicator which it used to duplicate Sections all the
> >way to the end of the world.
> >
> >What would happen if Eternity built a time kettle to travel back in
> >Eternity's physiotime to an earlier physiotime?
>
> Dunno, but Fritz Leiber's _The Big Time specifies that you can't
> set up a secondary time-travel field inside a primary one. "Or,
> as Gertie Stein might have put it, you can't time travel through
> the time you travel in when you time travel."
Why should Isaac Asimov be bound by Fritz Leiber's rules? >> Stay informed about: End Of Eternity And Time Travel |
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External
Since: Jun 16, 2007
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: End Of Eternity And Time Travel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>isaac-asimov, others (more info?)
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On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 12:17:34 -0800, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni.TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>In Eternity, which is a big temporal field outside Reality in which the
>Eternals live and work, time passes, and the people grow older. This
>passage of time is known as "physiotime". Andrew Harlan has spent two
>physioyears teaching Cooper Primitive History, and the project to sent
>Cooper back to the 24th century to invent time travel seems to have
>taken several physiodecades. Early in Eternity's history in physiotime,
>Eternity had painstakingly built up several hundred Sections when it
>obtained a matter duplicator which it used to duplicate Sections all the
>way to the end of the world.
>
>What would happen if Eternity built a time kettle to travel back in
>Eternity's physiotime to an earlier physiotime?
Nothing. The field used to create physiotime is the field used to
travel in time. >> Stay informed about: End Of Eternity And Time Travel |
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External
Since: Jan 12, 2004
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: End Of Eternity And Time Travel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: mn>humor, others (more info?)
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In article <490CE82F.B7B91108.RemoveThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>,
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni.RemoveThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
>
>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> In article <490CB95E.2A79E3A5.RemoveThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>,
>> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni.RemoveThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>> >In Eternity, which is a big temporal field outside Reality in which the
>> >Eternals live and work, time passes, and the people grow older. This
>> >passage of time is known as "physiotime". Andrew Harlan has spent two
>> >physioyears teaching Cooper Primitive History, and the project to sent
>> >Cooper back to the 24th century to invent time travel seems to have
>> >taken several physiodecades. Early in Eternity's history in physiotime,
>> >Eternity had painstakingly built up several hundred Sections when it
>> >obtained a matter duplicator which it used to duplicate Sections all the
>> >way to the end of the world.
>> >
>> >What would happen if Eternity built a time kettle to travel back in
>> >Eternity's physiotime to an earlier physiotime?
>>
>> Dunno, but Fritz Leiber's _The Big Time specifies that you can't
>> set up a secondary time-travel field inside a primary one. "Or,
>> as Gertie Stein might have put it, you can't time travel through
>> the time you travel in when you time travel."
>
>Why should Isaac Asimov be bound by Fritz Leiber's rules?
No reason. But when you consider that both forms of time travel
are fictional, one guess is as good as another.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt.RemoveThis@kithrup.com >> Stay informed about: End Of Eternity And Time Travel |
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