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External
Since: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:25 pm
Post subject: Homer, Home and Middle-earth
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)
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Noting Paul Tillich's definition of faith, we might say that getting
home is Odysseus' "ultimate concern," and a rather static one, as it
remains a constant, and quite central, point of reference throughout
the epic. But the question of why Homer spends half of the text of the
ODYSSEY in Ithaca, telling about Odysseus' adventure of regaining his
own after he has returned there, is interesting and important.
Thinking about "myth" and how it functions in literature in general,
and the ODYSSEY in particular, the image of "home" as identified in
Homer's works seems to possess immense gravity and power.
Of course, the idea of home in Tolkien's works does not have such
mythological centrality. It would be interesting to contrast these two
views of home. Tolkien was an orphan by the age of 12. Maybe this
experience informs his more generalized idea of home; it is either
simply a place to hang one's hat, one's country in a rather pedestrian
sense, or (and more ultimately) an unknown place beyond the world.
After their adventures of saving the world (everybody's home) from
ruin, the hobbits certainly return to their home to many changes, both
in the Shire and in their own identities, but in Frodo's case
especially, there can be no return to the innocence of the past, and he
can not partake of rest or fulfillment there. He will not be healed
until he goes into the "uttermost West," which for all practical
purposes might as well be "heaven," as there is no returning back to
the Shire from there.
It is Gandalf's charge to preserve from the threat of evil any place
where anything good can grow, whether it is Gondor, Rohan or the
well-tilled fields of the West Farthing. But where is Gandalf's home? |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 559
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Homer, Home and Middle-earth [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 17 Apr 2005 19:25:51 -0700, "Grondigwiller" <wpadgett DeleteThis @gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>It is Gandalf's charge to preserve from the threat of evil any place
>where anything good can grow, whether it is Gondor, Rohan or the
>well-tilled fields of the West Farthing. But where is Gandalf's home?
2657 West Lobelia Court
Dwimmerlaik, Aman 00900-0666
the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:softrat@pobox.com
--
Hard work pays off in the future, laziness pays off now. --
Steven Wright<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 1657
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Homer, Home and Middle-earth [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Grondigwiller <wpadgett DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> Noting Paul Tillich's definition of faith, we might say that getting
> home is Odysseus' "ultimate concern," and a rather static one, as it
> remains a constant, and quite central, point of reference throughout
> the epic. But the question of why Homer
Simpson?
> spends half of the text of
> the ODYSSEY in Ithaca, telling about Odysseus' adventure of regaining
> his own after he has returned there, is interesting and important.
> Thinking about "myth" and how it functions in literature in general,
> and the ODYSSEY in particular, the image of "home" as identified in
> Homer's works seems to possess immense gravity and power.
>
> Of course, the idea of home in Tolkien's works does not have such
> mythological centrality.
You forgot the subtitle of /The Hobbit/:
"There and Back Again".
And Bilbo has to reclaim his own when _he_ returns. This could be
compared with the way Odysseus reclaims Ithaca.
> It would be interesting to contrast these
> two views of home. Tolkien was an orphan by the age of 12. Maybe
> this experience informs his more generalized idea of home; it is
> either simply a place to hang one's hat, one's country in a rather
> pedestrian sense, or (and more ultimately) an unknown place beyond
> the world.
The spirits of men return to their long homes?
> After their adventures of saving the world (everybody's home) from
> ruin, the hobbits certainly return to their home to many changes, both
> in the Shire and in their own identities, but in Frodo's case
> especially, there can be no return to the innocence of the past, and
> he can not partake of rest or fulfillment there. He will not be
> healed until he goes into the "uttermost West," which for all
> practical purposes might as well be "heaven," as there is no
> returning back to the Shire from there.
>
> It is Gandalf's charge to preserve from the threat of evil any place
> where anything good can grow, whether it is Gondor, Rohan or the
> well-tilled fields of the West Farthing. But where is Gandalf's home?
Faerie. It says so in /The Hobbit/ where the Elves of Mirkwood are
described thus as:
"...descended from the ancient tribes that never went to Faerie in the
West. There the Light-elves and the Deep-elves and the Sea-elves went
and lived for ages, and grew fairer and wiser and more learned, and
invented their magic and their cunning craft, in the making of beautiful
and marvellous things, before some came back into the Wide World."
And Gandalf came from West over the Sea.
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Homer, Home and Middle-earth |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 1657
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Homer, Home and Middle-earth [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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the softrat <softrat RemoveThis @pobox.com> wrote:
> On 17 Apr 2005 19:25:51 -0700, "Grondigwiller" <wpadgett RemoveThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> It is Gandalf's charge to preserve from the threat of evil any place
>> where anything good can grow, whether it is Gondor, Rohan or the
>> well-tilled fields of the West Farthing. But where is Gandalf's
>> home?
>
> 2657 West Lobelia Court
> Dwimmerlaik, Aman 00900-0666
<gasp> The number of the devil!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Homer, Home and Middle-earth |
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External
Since: Jan 01, 2004
Posts: 632
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Homer, Home and Middle-earth [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:
>the softrat <softrat.TakeThisOut@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 17 Apr 2005 19:25:51 -0700, "Grondigwiller" <wpadgett.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It is Gandalf's charge to preserve from the threat of evil any place
>>> where anything good can grow, whether it is Gondor, Rohan or the
>>> well-tilled fields of the West Farthing. But where is Gandalf's
>>> home?
>>
>> 2657 West Lobelia Court
>> Dwimmerlaik, Aman 00900-0666
>
><gasp> The number of the devil!
Well, when Melkor broke his lease, the place was vacant, so Gandalf
was able to pick up the rest of the lease term for a song.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</a>
FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</a>
Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</a>
more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Homer, Home and Middle-earth |
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Since: Feb 02, 2005
Posts: 22
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Homer, Home and Middle-earth [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"the softrat" <softrat RemoveThis @pobox.com> wrote in message
news:2j7661p0em765uqlskdr5ff2mlguj5b9ba@4ax.com...
> On 17 Apr 2005 19:25:51 -0700, "Grondigwiller" <wpadgett RemoveThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >It is Gandalf's charge to preserve from the threat of evil any place
> >where anything good can grow, whether it is Gondor, Rohan or the
> >well-tilled fields of the West Farthing. But where is Gandalf's home?
>
> 2657 West Lobelia Court
> Dwimmerlaik, Aman 00900-0666
>
Next to Mrs Miggins pie shop
--
Rhiannon_S
Yes, I am a fluffly bunny, but so was the one in Monty Python! >> Stay informed about: Homer, Home and Middle-earth |
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