Next Honorverse Book?

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but aahz.DeleteThis@pobox.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote
on 27 Aug 2006 21:04:36 -0700 in alt.books.david-weber :
>In article <k5h2f2hql9bhi5co41tsav8t9smov6edda.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
>pyotr filipivich <phamp.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>Although I think the most dangerous phrase ever heard will remain "Victor
>>Cachat has a plan ..."
>
>What about Miles Vorkosigan?

Different Universe, but the thoughts the same... 'Great Maker!
Everybody run! there are TWO of them!'

pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
We now return you to something called reality.
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

On 27 Aug 2006 21:04:36 -0700, aahz.TakeThisOut@pobox.com (Aahz Maruch)
allegedly declared to alt.books.david-weber...
>In article <k5h2f2hql9bhi5co41tsav8t9smov6edda.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
>pyotr filipivich <phamp.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>Although I think the most dangerous phrase ever heard will remain "Victor
>>Cachat has a plan ..."
>
>What about Miles Vorkosigan?

"Victor? Anton? We're bringing in a consultant for this mission: He's
a mercenary fleet commander..."

--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider.
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but quirk RemoveThis @swcp.com (Taki Kogoma) wrote
on Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:47:43 +0000 (UTC) in alt.books.david-weber :
>On 27 Aug 2006 21:04:36 -0700, aahz RemoveThis @pobox.com (Aahz Maruch)
>allegedly declared to alt.books.david-weber...
>>In article <k5h2f2hql9bhi5co41tsav8t9smov6edda RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
>>pyotr filipivich <phamp RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>Although I think the most dangerous phrase ever heard will remain "Victor
>>>Cachat has a plan ..."
>>
>>What about Miles Vorkosigan?
>
>"Victor? Anton? We're bringing in a consultant for this mission: He's
>a mercenary fleet commander..."

"Ah, I have his file. It will be interesting to see how far the file
and the man agree."


tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result of ragin hormones
Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1968.
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

"Don Sample" <dsample DeleteThis @synapse.net> wrote in message
news:dsample-5ADACC.12330227082006@news.giganews.com...
> In article <k5h2f2hql9bhi5co41tsav8t9smov6edda DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
> pyotr filipivich <phamp DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "gS49" <gersmith00 DeleteThis @verizon.net>
>> wrote on Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:04:18 GMT in alt.books.david-weber :
>> >
>> >"Offbreed" <offbreed_106 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:SfqdnZGr6-aU_W3ZnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@scnresearch.com...
>> >> deowll wrote:
>> >>> "Marc Reeve" <cram DeleteThis @got.net> wrote in message
>> >>
>> >>>> True dat... Victor's going to be seriously pissed about Thandi
>> >>>> nearly
>> >>>> getting waxed. Ditto Anton re: Berry.
>> >>>
>> >>> And when these men get seriously pissed at somebody they usually
>> >>> intend
>> >>> to inflect grevious, not to say fatal, injury on the party or parties
>> >>> responsible.
>> >>
>> >> Will we be treated to a practical example of the alternative meaning
>> >> of
>> >> "brief feelings of regret" on the part of those responsible?
>> >
>> >Just think of Victor -trying- to be vengeful and cruel!!
>>
>> Victor is not "cruel". He's completely indifferent to the suffering of
>> others, especially when those others are considered part of the
>> topography.
>> But the ones who are responsible for threatening his interests will,
>> those
>> he will terminate with extreme prejudice.
>
> For Victor to be completely indifferent to the suffering of others, he
> would have to be a complete sociopath, which he isn't. What Victor can
> do is feign indifference so well that people *think* he's a complete
> sociopath.

Our vision of Victor does not exactlly match. Once he is on task he tends to
be mainly concerned with getting the job done. I believe the most that can
be said is that he attempts to prevent collateral damage to innocents. I do
think that the he is a person who believes the end result had better justify
the means used. Like many in his line of work that are good he may appear
sociopathic at times. I see Victor as being dangerous to Victor and others
in that he may persue a course/cause to the point he becomes the ultimate
horror. He needs somebody to prevent him locking up his feelings and
throwing away the key.

>
> --
> Quando omni flunkus moritati
> Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

"gS49" <gersmith00 DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:M2mIg.869$4O4.182@trnddc02...
>
> "pyotr filipivich" <phamp DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:k5h2f2hql9bhi5co41tsav8t9smov6edda@4ax.com...
>> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "gS49" <gersmith00 DeleteThis @verizon.net>
>> wrote on Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:04:18 GMT in alt.books.david-weber :
>>>
>>>"Offbreed" <offbreed_106 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:SfqdnZGr6-aU_W3ZnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@scnresearch.com...
>>>> deowll wrote:
>>>>> "Marc Reeve" <cram DeleteThis @got.net> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>> True dat... Victor's going to be seriously pissed about Thandi nearly
>>>>>> getting waxed. Ditto Anton re: Berry.
>>>>>
>>>>> And when these men get seriously pissed at somebody they usually
>>>>> intend
>>>>> to inflect grevious, not to say fatal, injury on the party or parties
>>>>> responsible.
>>>>
>>>> Will we be treated to a practical example of the alternative meaning of
>>>> "brief feelings of regret" on the part of those responsible?
>>>
>>>Just think of Victor -trying- to be vengeful and cruel!!
>>
>> Victor is not "cruel". He's completely indifferent to the suffering of
>> others, especially when those others are considered part of the
>> topography.
>> But the ones who are responsible for threatening his interests will,
>> those
>> he will terminate with extreme prejudice.
>
> You're right, he isn't cruel (nor is he indifferent). I was joking about
> how frightening he'd be if he were.

Um. He is driven by a need to make things better.
I have seen no evidence that anything he has done to anyone that he felt
needed terminating bothered him in any fashhion. I think he regards
terminating such people as taking out the trash.

>
>>
>>>I definately want him as a friend, if only because I'd be scared witless
>>>to
>>>have him as an enemy.
>>
>> Victor needs a T-shirt which reads "This side towards enemy."
>>
>>
>> tschus
>> pyotr
>>
>> Although I think the most dangerous phrase ever heard will remain "Victor
>> Cachat has a plan ..."
>> --
>> pyotr filipivich
>> "Set phasers to deep fat fy, extra crispy, Cajun style."
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Marc Reeve <cram.DeleteThis@got.net> wrote on
Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:11:55 -0700 in alt.books.david-weber :
>pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but quirk.DeleteThis@swcp.com (Taki Kogoma) wrote
>> on Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:47:43 +0000 (UTC) in alt.books.david-weber :
>>> On 27 Aug 2006 21:04:36 -0700, aahz.DeleteThis@pobox.com (Aahz Maruch)
>>> allegedly declared to alt.books.david-weber...
>>>> In article <k5h2f2hql9bhi5co41tsav8t9smov6edda.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
>>>> pyotr filipivich <phamp.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>> Although I think the most dangerous phrase ever heard will remain "Victor
>>>>> Cachat has a plan ..."
>>>> What about Miles Vorkosigan?
>>> "Victor? Anton? We're bringing in a consultant for this mission: He's
>>> a mercenary fleet commander..."
>>
>> "Ah, I have his file. It will be interesting to see how far the file
>> and the man agree."
>>
>"Remember, the file is not the man. The map is not the territory."

Kevin Usher said that, didn't he?

I'm pretty sure that _wasn't_ in his file.

BWhahahaahaha!

pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
We now return you to something called reality.
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

"deowll" <deowll.RemoveThis@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:B15Jg.5601$9v5.4612@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
> Our vision of Victor does not exactlly match. Once he is on task he tends
> to be mainly concerned with getting the job done. I believe the most that
> can be said is that he attempts to prevent collateral damage to innocents.
> I do think that the he is a person who believes the end result had better
> justify the means used. Like many in his line of work that are good he may
> appear sociopathic at times. I see Victor as being dangerous to Victor and
> others in that he may persue a course/cause to the point he becomes the
> ultimate horror. He needs somebody to prevent him locking up his feelings
> and throwing away the key.
>
>>
>> --
>> Quando omni flunkus moritati
>> Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
>
>

He had Ginny and now has Thandi. God help the Universe if anything happens
to Thandi.

--
*
Paul Howard
*
New e-mail: drakbibliophile at yahoo.com
*
Drak Bibliophile (Bane Of Book Rustlers), Yahoo Id DrakBibliophile
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins! (That's why there are still Dragons Around)
[Polite Dragon Smile]
*
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "deowll" <deowll.RemoveThis@bellsouth.net>
wrote on Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:39:20 -0500 in alt.books.david-weber :
>
>>> Victor is not "cruel". He's completely indifferent to the suffering of
>>> others, especially when those others are considered part of the
>>> topography.
>>> But the ones who are responsible for threatening his interests will,
>>> those
>>> he will terminate with extreme prejudice.
>>
>> You're right, he isn't cruel (nor is he indifferent). I was joking about
>> how frightening he'd be if he were.
>
>Um. He is driven by a need to make things better.
>I have seen no evidence that anything he has done to anyone that he felt
>needed terminating bothered him in any fashhion. I think he regards
>terminating such people as taking out the trash.

Victor, in such situations, is an exemplar of a Man doing, what a Man
has to do. What ever "it" is, It must be done, by a responsible adult.
What ever it is, it is a Duty. And Victor is very conscientious about
doing his Duty. Even if it means that people are going to die, directly or
indirectly because of his choices.
Like I say, I like 'young Victor", connoisseur of old movies, newbie,
young man about town who just met the love of his life.
Special Agent Cachat, on the other hand, I'd want to be very careful
how I met him in his professional capacity.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result of ragin hormones
Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1968.
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

Aahz Maruch wrote:
> In article <k5h2f2hql9bhi5co41tsav8t9smov6edda.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
> pyotr filipivich <phamp.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Although I think the most dangerous phrase ever heard will remain "Victor
>> Cachat has a plan ..."
>
> What about Miles Vorkosigan?

I have tried to visualize Honor's reaction to Miles.

For some reason, I keep thinking about migraines.
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "Paul Howard"
<ppaulshoward.TakeThisOut@insightbb.com> wrote on Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:10:53 -0500 in
alt.books.david-weber :
>
>"pyotr filipivich" <phamp.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:arp4f2lh3sbik68lgmqarfqli6upucna2c@4ax.com...
>> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Offbreed <offbreed_106.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
>> wrote on Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:26:19 -0700 in alt.books.david-weber :
>>>Don Sample wrote:
>>>
>>>> For Victor to be completely indifferent to the suffering of others, he
>>>> would have to be a complete sociopath, which he isn't. What Victor can
>>>> do is feign indifference so well that people *think* he's a complete
>>>> sociopath.
>>>
>>>He has a stronger than usual "us/them" sense. "Us" gets concern, "them"
>>>get nothing, not even hatred.
>>
>> Yeah, what he said. Victor is not a sociopath, just indifferent to
>> those who are merely part of the scenery (Like the Mesan operators he
>> "interviewed" in the Wages of Sin.). Or have betrayed the Revolution.
>> The point is, Victor doesn't agonize over having to kill someone, or
>> over having killed someone. He doesn't have to get worked up, he just
>> does
>> it.
>> I suspect that he agonizes more over why he is not bothered by his
>> ability to kill or inflict bodily harm dispassionately.
>>
>> Remember as well, he was mortified to discover that he thoroughly
>> enjoyed "ravishing" a "helpless" Solarian Marine Lieutenant.
>
>I think he's over that after realizing he still loves her after seeing first
>hand how NOT helpless she can be.

Oh, no doubt about it. "Never interfere when a professional is
working." Recall the various by-play in the shadows of the gaming hall,
after Victor puts on the Act. Afterwards, Thandi is just trilled that
he's quite capable of taking care of himself [even if Berry slaps her for
calling herself a monster.]. Naomi Imbesi, who had a crush on the exotic
foreign secret agent since she first met him, is suddenly ... this is not a
man she wants near her.
Which is not to say he was not mortified over his "deviant" tendencies
when he first realized them. It can be quite disconcerting to discover
that as much as you love her, what you want to do is just 'take her' never
mind what she wants, even when what she wants is for you to just "take
her." It takes all the fun out of it to realize that you can't "rape" the
willing! But you do what a man's got to do, and that includes 'raping
the willing'. "Force yourself, young man."

And I think the turning point was when she 'bench pressed' him the
morning after, looked at him, and ... smiled. "What beauty. I'd die for
her. I'd kill for her. Either way, what bliss." Ah, that incurable
romantic, Gomez Addams.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result of ragin hormones
Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1968.
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

"pyotr filipivich" <phamp DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ibfif2t78aukhebkomaaremh33m5prtqmu@4ax.com...
> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "Paul Howard"
> <ppaulshoward DeleteThis @insightbb.com> wrote on Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:10:53 -0500 in
> alt.books.david-weber :
>>
>>"pyotr filipivich" <phamp DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:arp4f2lh3sbik68lgmqarfqli6upucna2c@4ax.com...
>>> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Offbreed
>>> <offbreed_106 DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
>>> wrote on Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:26:19 -0700 in alt.books.david-weber :
>>>>Don Sample wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For Victor to be completely indifferent to the suffering of others, he
>>>>> would have to be a complete sociopath, which he isn't. What Victor
>>>>> can
>>>>> do is feign indifference so well that people *think* he's a complete
>>>>> sociopath.
>>>>
>>>>He has a stronger than usual "us/them" sense. "Us" gets concern, "them"
>>>>get nothing, not even hatred.
>>>
>>> Yeah, what he said. Victor is not a sociopath, just indifferent to
>>> those who are merely part of the scenery (Like the Mesan operators he
>>> "interviewed" in the Wages of Sin.). Or have betrayed the Revolution.
>>> The point is, Victor doesn't agonize over having to kill someone, or
>>> over having killed someone. He doesn't have to get worked up, he just
>>> does
>>> it.
>>> I suspect that he agonizes more over why he is not bothered by his
>>> ability to kill or inflict bodily harm dispassionately.
>>>
>>> Remember as well, he was mortified to discover that he thoroughly
>>> enjoyed "ravishing" a "helpless" Solarian Marine Lieutenant.
>>
>>I think he's over that after realizing he still loves her after seeing
>>first
>>hand how NOT helpless she can be.
>
> Oh, no doubt about it. "Never interfere when a professional is
> working." Recall the various by-play in the shadows of the gaming hall,
> after Victor puts on the Act. Afterwards, Thandi is just trilled that
> he's quite capable of taking care of himself [even if Berry slaps her for
> calling herself a monster.]. Naomi Imbesi, who had a crush on the exotic
> foreign secret agent since she first met him, is suddenly ... this is not
> a
> man she wants near her.
> Which is not to say he was not mortified over his "deviant" tendencies
> when he first realized them. It can be quite disconcerting to discover
> that as much as you love her, what you want to do is just 'take her' never
> mind what she wants, even when what she wants is for you to just "take
> her." It takes all the fun out of it to realize that you can't "rape" the
> willing! But you do what a man's got to do, and that includes 'raping
> the willing'. "Force yourself, young man."

It's not rape, although Victor looked at it that way. It's a dom/sub
relationship. Considering how good an actor Victor is and how he uses that
skill, doing whatever necessary, to take control of any situation; it's not
that surprising that he took to the dom role easily.

But it was rather--convenient--that Thandi is a sub. I guess Weber thought
the readers would like something good to happen to Victor. Fan service?

>
> And I think the turning point was when she 'bench pressed' him the
> morning after, looked at him, and ... smiled. "What beauty. I'd die for
> her. I'd kill for her. Either way, what bliss." Ah, that incurable
> romantic, Gomez Addams.
>
> tschus
> pyotr
>
> --
> pyotr filipivich
> Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result of ragin hormones
> Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1968.
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

"pyotr filipivich" <phamp.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ibfif2t78aukhebkomaaremh33m5prtqmu@4ax.com...
> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "Paul Howard"
> <ppaulshoward.DeleteThis@insightbb.com> wrote on Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:10:53 -0500 in
> alt.books.david-weber :
>>
>>"pyotr filipivich" <phamp.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:arp4f2lh3sbik68lgmqarfqli6upucna2c@4ax.com...
>>> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Offbreed
>>> <offbreed_106.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote on Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:26:19 -0700 in alt.books.david-weber :
>>>>Don Sample wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For Victor to be completely indifferent to the suffering of others, he
>>>>> would have to be a complete sociopath, which he isn't. What Victor
>>>>> can
>>>>> do is feign indifference so well that people *think* he's a complete
>>>>> sociopath.
>>>>
>>>>He has a stronger than usual "us/them" sense. "Us" gets concern, "them"
>>>>get nothing, not even hatred.
>>>
>>> Yeah, what he said. Victor is not a sociopath, just indifferent to
>>> those who are merely part of the scenery (Like the Mesan operators he
>>> "interviewed" in the Wages of Sin.). Or have betrayed the Revolution.
>>> The point is, Victor doesn't agonize over having to kill someone, or
>>> over having killed someone. He doesn't have to get worked up, he just
>>> does
>>> it.
>>> I suspect that he agonizes more over why he is not bothered by his
>>> ability to kill or inflict bodily harm dispassionately.
>>>
>>> Remember as well, he was mortified to discover that he thoroughly
>>> enjoyed "ravishing" a "helpless" Solarian Marine Lieutenant.
>>
>>I think he's over that after realizing he still loves her after seeing
>>first
>>hand how NOT helpless she can be.
>
> Oh, no doubt about it. "Never interfere when a professional is
> working." Recall the various by-play in the shadows of the gaming hall,
> after Victor puts on the Act. Afterwards, Thandi is just trilled that
> he's quite capable of taking care of himself [even if Berry slaps her for
> calling herself a monster.]. Naomi Imbesi, who had a crush on the exotic
> foreign secret agent since she first met him, is suddenly ... this is not
> a
> man she wants near her.
> Which is not to say he was not mortified over his "deviant" tendencies
> when he first realized them. It can be quite disconcerting to discover
> that as much as you love her, what you want to do is just 'take her' never
> mind what she wants, even when what she wants is for you to just "take
> her." It takes all the fun out of it to realize that you can't "rape" the
> willing! But you do what a man's got to do, and that includes 'raping
> the willing'. "Force yourself, young man."
>
> And I think the turning point was when she 'bench pressed' him the
> morning after, looked at him, and ... smiled. "What beauty. I'd die for
> her. I'd kill for her. Either way, what bliss." Ah, that incurable
> romantic, Gomez Addams.

Um, there is no doubt about it that some guys like big strong Amazon types
and Thanda is extremely pleased that her boy toy can take care of himself.
It a match made in Haven or somewhere there abouts. I'm just curious what
the kids will be like.



>
> tschus
> pyotr
>
> --
> pyotr filipivich
> Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result of ragin hormones
> Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1968.
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book? 

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 20:03:49 -0500, deowll <deowll.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Um, there is no doubt about it that some guys like big strong Amazon
> types
> and Thanda is extremely pleased that her boy toy can take care of
> himself.
> It a match made in Haven or somewhere there abouts. I'm just curious what
> the kids will be like.

To misquote a famous line: mad, bad, and dangerous to know too much about.

Andrew Lannon
 >> Stay informed about: Next Honorverse Book?