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Since: Nov 02, 2006 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:43 pm
Post subject: Idle Speculation Archived from groups: alt>books>david-weber (more info?)
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But first, a question.
Has anyone heard from the lips (or the keyboard) of HIMSELF, a
more recent writing schedule then that posted in the Bar a year or so
ago? That has obviously been delayed as it estimated the next CoS for
this Nov/Dec. and there is nothing listed in the Baen schedule through
May 2007.
Moving on , It seems that many here seem to be postulating
that the Star Kingdom will soon discover what Haven has alreasy
discovered, i.e. the manipulation of Manpower/Mesa. Folks, it seems to
me that we've got a LONG row to hoe yet. The above mentioned writing
schedule planned on 5-6 total books in the CoS, 5-6 books in SI, and
about the same in the mainstream honorverse. Add in another 3-4 Worlds
of Honor collections and we are looking at another 18-20 books, We've
already had 17. I do not think the last dozen books are going to be
"...And they all lived happily everafter..." This is going to get a
lot uglier before we ever get out of the outhouse.
Even if the discovery comes quite soon in the very next book,
an anti-Manpower alliance needs time. Manticore needs to get the
educational system of it's new Silesian and Talbott possessions up to
speed. Both it and Haven need time to get the economies running and
rationalized if they have any hopes of defeating the League. Which
segues into our next bit of speculation....
If we accept HIMSELF's suggestions that the League as an
entirety can not be conquered, we have to ask, what portion of the
League will it require to join the crusade against Manpower. It looks
obvious that Beowulf will be appalled at the genetic perversions that
Mesa might be ready to dump onto an unprepared galaxy. One gets the
impression that Beowulf's system defense force is probably quite good
and rather more advanced then most of the League's other SDF's, but
not nearly as large as would be needed to project power in the new
realities of interstellar war as practiced in the Manticore - Haven
wars. But it would seem that Beowulf does have both a huge economic
potential and , possibly even more important, a huge moral influence
that can be wielded diplomatically. An alliance of the more
progressive polities , particularly the oldest of Earth's settled
worlds would go a long way to equalizing the long term correlation of
forces.
However, I believe that is , as mentioned, well ahead of us,
first both the Manticoran Alliance and Haven will be frantically
building things that shoot, There are , as we all know, more loose
ends in the plot then a cheap wig. I am particularly disturbed by the
all so casual mention of Manpower's intent of trouble making in the
Midgard system, which if I recall is a very large multisystem polity
out past the Andermani's. The Alliance does NOT need to have a second
front opened on them, even if the Alliance's tech levels are
sufficient for them to dispose handily of a vigorous intrusion into
the Anderman Empire., it would be yet another vacuum cleaner of force
dispersal..
How will it all turn out?
Will Victor and Anton return with all the answers? Will they return at
all?
Will Queen Elizabeth have to be removed from office , kicking and
screaming, before a peace is acheived?
How will Grayson react to the marriage of Hamish,Emily, and Honor?
Where DOES the Torch wormhole take us? Will Dr. Kare and company be
loaned to Queen Berry to work on this?
Whither Wanderman,Scotty,Harkness,Abigail and the rest of our boys and
girls in uniform?
Will the next SI have Abigail as a cruiser XO with Helen Zilwicki as
asst Tac and OCTO for a snotty row that includes Rachel Mayhew?
Where will the next treecat colony be located?
Will Raoul Alfred Alistair , under lifelong treecat influence be the
Kwizach Haderach(oops , wrong universe), never mind...
Will the last sentence in the last book be " ..and she was crowned as
Honor the 1st, Empress of the known Galaxy"
Who knows? All I know is that I'll be going along for the ride as
long as HIMSELF lets me.
Thanks Dave. >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Apr 13, 2005 Posts: 353
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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BrianBridgePro wrote:
> One gets the
> impression that Beowulf's system defense force is probably quite good
> and rather more advanced then most of the League's other SDF's, but
> not nearly as large as would be needed to project power in the new
> realities of interstellar war as practiced in the Manticore - Haven
> wars.
Same problem as Erewon. Too much capital invested in the ships.
They might be able to sell to someone far enough away to free up some
cash so they can upgrade...
> I am particularly disturbed by the
> all so casual mention of Manpower's intent of trouble making in the
> Midgard system, which if I recall is a very large multisystem polity
> out past the Andermani's.
Oh? I missed that. Nasty. >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Aug 05, 2005 Posts: 19
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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BrianBridgePro wrote:
> One gets the
> impression that Beowulf's system defense force is probably quite good
> and rather more advanced then most of the League's other SDF's, but
> not nearly as large as would be needed to project power in the new
> realities of interstellar war as practiced in the Manticore - Haven
> wars.
I would not bet the bank on this they have also been descrbed as
insular.
> But it would seem that Beowulf does have both a huge economic
> potential and , possibly even more important, a huge moral influence
> that can be wielded diplomatically. An alliance of the more
> progressive polities , particularly the oldest of Earth's settled
> worlds would go a long way to equalizing the long term correlation of
> forces.
>
maybe they could hire contracters to help with sillesian and talbot
additions
but we also have to remember that there have hints of manpower
pennetration on Beowulf
then there is the fact that we know they have at least one agent in the
havenite security apparatus although I dought if if Kevin Usher has not
come to this conclusion to
One thing I have always thought funny is how people seem to misread
Elizabeth for instance when they resumed the war the second time she
was angry but it seemed to me she at least half that anger was at
having to start the war again and would have been glad to find a reason
blame some one else >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Nov 03, 2006 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:43 am
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> Moving on , It seems that many here seem to be postulating
> that the Star Kingdom will soon discover what Haven has alreasy
> discovered, i.e. the manipulation of Manpower/Mesa. Folks, it seems to
> me that we've got a LONG row to hoe yet. The above mentioned writing
> schedule planned on 5-6 total books in the CoS, 5-6 books in SI, and
The next war will have the Solarian League involved. They start playing
for real money then...
Just speculation but a "galaxy" war seems on the horizon.
Lynn >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Jul 02, 2003 Posts: 41
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:43:26 -0600, "Lynn McGuire" <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.com>
allegedly declared to alt.books.david-weber...
>> Moving on , It seems that many here seem to be postulating
>> that the Star Kingdom will soon discover what Haven has alreasy
>> discovered, i.e. the manipulation of Manpower/Mesa. Folks, it seems to
>> me that we've got a LONG row to hoe yet. The above mentioned writing
>> schedule planned on 5-6 total books in the CoS, 5-6 books in SI, and
>
>The next war will have the Solarian League involved. They start playing
>for real money then...
>
>Just speculation but a "galaxy" war seems on the horizon.
DW noted in the afterword to SVW that over half the human-populated
galaxy will eventually be drawn into a major conflict.
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider. >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Aug 13, 2003 Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"wendal" <aehoppy.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162530713.664867.93030@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> BrianBridgePro wrote:
>> One gets the
>> impression that Beowulf's system defense force is probably quite good
>> and rather more advanced then most of the League's other SDF's, but
>> not nearly as large as would be needed to project power in the new
>> realities of interstellar war as practiced in the Manticore - Haven
>> wars.
> I would not bet the bank on this they have also been descrbed as
> insular.
They are a high tech leader in many fields of research and has been for eons
with very close ties to Manticore. Compared to what the rest of the League
has their equipment is good as a best guess. How much equipment they have
hasn't even been hinted at. I'm not left with the view that this is a huge
force but neither can I claim it is a small force. Where do you get the idea
they are insular?
>
>> But it would seem that Beowulf does have both a huge economic
>> potential and , possibly even more important, a huge moral influence
>> that can be wielded diplomatically. An alliance of the more
>> progressive polities , particularly the oldest of Earth's settled
>> worlds would go a long way to equalizing the long term correlation of
>> forces.
>>
> maybe they could hire contracters to help with sillesian and talbot
> additions
> but we also have to remember that there have hints of manpower
> pennetration on Beowulf
No doubt but these two are mortal enemies according to DW.
> then there is the fact that we know they have at least one agent in the
> havenite security apparatus although I dought if if Kevin Usher has not
> come to this conclusion to
>
> One thing I have always thought funny is how people seem to misread
> Elizabeth for instance when they resumed the war the second time she
> was angry but it seemed to me she at least half that anger was at
> having to start the war again and would have been glad to find a reason
> blame some one else
> >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Aug 26, 2003 Posts: 296
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "Lynn McGuire" <nospam.TakeThisOut@nospam.com>
wrote on Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:43:26 -0600 in alt.books.david-weber :
>> Moving on , It seems that many here seem to be postulating
>> that the Star Kingdom will soon discover what Haven has alreasy
>> discovered, i.e. the manipulation of Manpower/Mesa. Folks, it seems to
>> me that we've got a LONG row to hoe yet. The above mentioned writing
>> schedule planned on 5-6 total books in the CoS, 5-6 books in SI, and
>
>The next war will have the Solarian League involved. They start playing
>for real money then...
There is a great difference between "the next war will have the
Solarian League involved" as various members of the Solarian League, ahh
"restructures the traditional political and economic structures, linkages,
and patterns", and "the next war will have the Solarian League involved" as
a unitary force in an interstellar war (such as between Haven & Manticore).
>Just speculation but a "galaxy" war seems on the horizon.
Can you say warlordism, as various sector governors offer "their skills
and services in these times of trouble"?
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich.
"I wish you wouldn't use the mind control device - I get
these terrible migranes until it's finished." Jonathon >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Aug 13, 2003 Posts: 1110
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"pyotr filipivich" <phamp RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:d6knk2pm38k2i64ahemqap0kf5higstgpv@4ax.com...
> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "Lynn McGuire" <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.com>
> wrote on Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:43:26 -0600 in alt.books.david-weber :
>>> Moving on , It seems that many here seem to be postulating
>>> that the Star Kingdom will soon discover what Haven has alreasy
>>> discovered, i.e. the manipulation of Manpower/Mesa. Folks, it seems to
>>> me that we've got a LONG row to hoe yet. The above mentioned writing
>>> schedule planned on 5-6 total books in the CoS, 5-6 books in SI, and
>>
>>The next war will have the Solarian League involved. They start playing
>>for real money then...
>
> There is a great difference between "the next war will have the
> Solarian League involved" as various members of the Solarian League, ahh
> "restructures the traditional political and economic structures, linkages,
> and patterns", and "the next war will have the Solarian League involved"
> as
> a unitary force in an interstellar war (such as between Haven &
> Manticore).
>
>>Just speculation but a "galaxy" war seems on the horizon.
>
> Can you say warlordism, as various sector governors offer "their skills
> and services in these times of trouble"?
You are thinking Mercs for hire. The sector governors already have small or
not so small empires that they will want to claim and expand.
Looking forward to reading about it if I don't die of old age first.
>
>
> tschus
> pyotr
> --
> pyotr filipivich.
> "I wish you wouldn't use the mind control device - I get
> these terrible migranes until it's finished." Jonathon >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Apr 13, 2005 Posts: 353
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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deowll wrote:
> "pyotr filipivich" <phamp RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> Can you say warlordism, as various sector governors offer "their skills
>> and services in these times of trouble"?
>
> You are thinking Mercs for hire. The sector governors already have small or
> not so small empires that they will want to claim and expand.
No, They are "offering their leadership skills to their people in these
times of trouble" at, ah, "great personal sacrifice". "Very reluctantly".
IOW, declaring independence and fragmenting the League into a hundred
pieces.
I think the core of the Solarian League is a voluntary association, and
those do not come apart easily. The outlaying regions were forced into
association, and those are more likely to seek escape. >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Aug 18, 2004 Posts: 269
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:35 am
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Offbreed wrote in message ...
>deowll wrote:
>> "pyotr filipivich" <phamp RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
>>> Can you say warlordism, as various sector governors offer "their skills
>>> and services in these times of trouble"?
>>
>> You are thinking Mercs for hire. The sector governors already have small
or
>> not so small empires that they will want to claim and expand.
>
>No, They are "offering their leadership skills to their people in these
>times of trouble" at, ah, "great personal sacrifice". "Very reluctantly".
>
>IOW, declaring independence and fragmenting the League into a hundred
>pieces.
>
>I think the core of the Solarian League is a voluntary association, and
>those do not come apart easily. The outlaying regions were forced into
>association, and those are more likely to seek escape.
I think that some sort of fragmentation of the League is coming. While I
can see Mesa/Manpower infiltrating and controlling big chunks of the League
like puppets, I can see some parts of the League seeing thru this
manipulation and breaking away, perhaps allying themselves with whatever
anti-Mesa/Manpower alliance ends up being formed. >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Apr 13, 2005 Posts: 353
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:35 am
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Fred Burton wrote:
> I think that some sort of fragmentation of the League is coming. While I
> can see Mesa/Manpower infiltrating and controlling big chunks of the League
> like puppets, I can see some parts of the League seeing thru this
> manipulation and breaking away, perhaps allying themselves with whatever
> anti-Mesa/Manpower alliance ends up being formed.
I think that Mesa's penetration of assorted parts of the League is going
to be a factor increasing the fragmentation of the League.
People who have sold out to someone outside their company (or nation)
are not going to defend their group. Why should they? Their emotionally
important source of income is from someone outside, and whatever group
they are betraying has proven it's self to be weak and unable to defend
it's self, plus whatever justifications the sell out makes for selling out.
Mesa has systematically introduced such flaws where there needs to be
strength. >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Aug 18, 2004 Posts: 269
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Offbreed wrote in message ...
>Fred Burton wrote:
>
>> I think that some sort of fragmentation of the League is coming. While I
>> can see Mesa/Manpower infiltrating and controlling big chunks of the
League
>> like puppets, I can see some parts of the League seeing thru this
>> manipulation and breaking away, perhaps allying themselves with whatever
>> anti-Mesa/Manpower alliance ends up being formed.
>
>
>I think that Mesa's penetration of assorted parts of the League is going
>to be a factor increasing the fragmentation of the League.
>
>People who have sold out to someone outside their company (or nation)
>are not going to defend their group. Why should they? Their emotionally
>important source of income is from someone outside, and whatever group
>they are betraying has proven it's self to be weak and unable to defend
>it's self, plus whatever justifications the sell out makes for selling out.
>
>Mesa has systematically introduced such flaws where there needs to be
>strength.
And add to that the fact that the League's political setup may be OK in a
situation where there are no real outside threats.
However, that setup does seem extremely vulnerable to some force that may be
intentionally trying to fracture it from the inside,
particularly when there's an apparant external threat. The lack of a strong
central government and an apparant political tradition
against one seems to make the League vulnerable to any force which may
covertly try to set League member planets against each other.
It seems as if Mesa's strategy will be to force a breakup of the League, to
have a number of warlord governors of various sectors
in their pocket, and to eventually try to gain control over much of the
League thru those warlord governors. >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Apr 13, 2005 Posts: 353
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Fred Burton wrote:
> It seems as if Mesa's strategy will be to force a breakup of the League, to
> have a number of warlord governors of various sectors
> in their pocket, and to eventually try to gain control over much of the
> League thru those warlord governors.
I had not considered that possibility.
That has an unpleasant plausibility to it.
It might even work. Sort of.
Dissident, or less powerful factions, breaking off from Manpower/Mesa
and setting up their own little kingdoms, all breeding up their
specialized slaves until they are hardly recognizable as humans, and
ending up fighting among themselves for status.
Some truly nasty possibilities, assuming no one squashes them. >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Aug 05, 2005 Posts: 19
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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deowll wrote:
> "wendal" <aehoppy RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1162530713.664867.93030@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > BrianBridgePro wrote:
> >> One gets the
> >> impression that Beowulf's system defense force is probably quite good
> >> and rather more advanced then most of the League's other SDF's, but
> >> not nearly as large as would be needed to project power in the new
> >> realities of interstellar war as practiced in the Manticore - Haven
> >> wars.
> > I would not bet the bank on this they have also been descrbed as
> > insular.
>
> They are a high tech leader in many fields of research and has been for eons
> with very close ties to Manticore. Compared to what the rest of the League
> has their equipment is good as a best guess. How much equipment they have
> hasn't even been hinted at. I'm not left with the view that this is a huge
> force but neither can I claim it is a small force. Where do you get the idea
> they are insular?
>
I don't remember Beowulf being mentioned as outstanding in any thing
other than the medical and social science fields.
as to their being insular I base that on comments relating to Alison
harrington and the fact that while they are the origin of many ideas
they are not mentioned as being directly involved and seem more like
intellectuals interested in keeping their shoes clean than in shoveling
muck
>
> >
> >> But it would seem that Beowulf does have both a huge economic
> >> potential and , possibly even more important, a huge moral influence
> >> that can be wielded diplomatically. An alliance of the more
> >> progressive polities , particularly the oldest of Earth's settled
> >> worlds would go a long way to equalizing the long term correlation of
> >> forces.
> >>
> > maybe they could hire contractors to help with sillesian and talbot
> > additions
> > but we also have to remember that there have hints of manpower
> > penetration on Beowulf
>
> No doubt but these two are mortal enemies according to DW.
>
all the more reason for Mesa to spend time infiltrating Beowulf as to
mortal see above
> > then there is the fact that we know they have at least one agent in the
> > havenite security apparatus although I don't know if if Kevin Usher has not
> > come to this conclusion to
> >
> > One thing I have always thought funny is how people seem to misread
> > Elizabeth for instance when they resumed the war the second time she
> > was angry but it seemed to me she at least half that anger was at
> > having to start the war again and would have been glad to find a reason
> > blame some one else
> > >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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Since: Aug 05, 2005 Posts: 19
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Idle Speculation [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Fred Burton wrote:
> Offbreed wrote in message ...
> >Fred Burton wrote:
> >
> >> I think that some sort of fragmentation of the League is coming. While I
> >> can see Mesa/Manpower infiltrating and controlling big chunks of the
> League
> >> like puppets, I can see some parts of the League seeing thru this
> >> manipulation and breaking away, perhaps allying themselves with whatever
> >> anti-Mesa/Manpower alliance ends up being formed.
> >
> >
> >I think that Mesa's penetration of assorted parts of the League is going
> >to be a factor increasing the fragmentation of the League.
> >
> >People who have sold out to someone outside their company (or nation)
> >are not going to defend their group. Why should they? Their emotionally
> >important source of income is from someone outside, and whatever group
> >they are betraying has proven it's self to be weak and unable to defend
> >it's self, plus whatever justifications the sell out makes for selling out.
> >
> >Mesa has systematically introduced such flaws where there needs to be
> >strength.
>
> And add to that the fact that the League's political setup may be OK in a
> situation where there are no real outside threats.
> However, that setup does seem extremely vulnerable to some force that may be
> intentionally trying to fracture it from the inside,
> particularly when there's an apparant external threat. The lack of a strong
> central government and an apparant political tradition
> against one seems to make the League vulnerable to any force which may
> covertly try to set League member planets against each other.
>
>
> It seems as if Mesa's strategy will be to force a breakup of the League, to
> have a number of warlord governors of various sectors
> in their pocket, and to eventually try to gain control over much of the
> League thru those warlord governors.
I don't know that mesa goals are that lofty. They may just be seeking
to have their own piece were they can do whatever they damn well please >> Stay informed about: Idle Speculation |
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