Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question

In message <news:8tydnZ6qva2HqPbVnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com>
Kieran Sanders <cypher1 RemoveThis @doomstone.co.uk> spoke these staves:
>

<snip>

> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play on the
> latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by Pterry
> specifically for this pun.

Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the intended meaning,
do you guess?

A place for (keeping) bears? A 'bearish' behaviour? Some action done to
bears? I suppose the second wouldn't be cruelty to bears, but I both
the place for keeping (or doing something else to) bears (e.g.
'fishery') and the action done to or with bears could easily be cruel.
My first impression was simply a word that could refer to the bear cave
at the zoo ('come on, Charlie, let's go down to the ursery'), but the
cruelty bit confused me somewhat.

I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or mispronounced
'ursery' -- occasional such mistakes almost asks for being understood
for what they might really mean rather than what the speaker intended


--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>

When one admits that nothing is certain one must, I think,
also admit that some things are much more nearly certain
than others.
- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:38:20 GMT, Troels Forchhammer
<Troels RemoveThis @ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:

>In message <news:8tydnZ6qva2HqPbVnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com>
>Kieran Sanders <cypher1 RemoveThis @doomstone.co.uk> spoke these staves:
>>
>
><snip>
>
>> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play on the
>> latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by Pterry
>> specifically for this pun.
>
>Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the intended meaning,
>do you guess?

The word has no meaning, it's Moist making a verbal typo. It appears
to be nothing more than a hook to hang a Vetinari quip on.

"Ursury" does imply bears via the Latin, but that's all - the
'cruelty' bit comes from mixing in the real meaning of the intended
word 'usury'.

Seen by itself, "ursury" doesn't have any roots that imply cruelty.

>I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or mispronounced
>'ursery' -- occasional such mistakes almost asks for being understood
>for what they might really mean rather than what the speaker intended
>

I think this is most likely, indeed!

Cheers - Jaimie
--
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

thanks all, i should have known that!

PTerry is just a genius - There's many of those puns over the
series...


On 2 Jul., 12:19, Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai....DeleteThis@sometimes.sessile.org>
wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:38:20 GMT, Troels Forchhammer
>
> <Tro....DeleteThis@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:
> >In message <news:8tydnZ6qva2HqPbVnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com>
> >Kieran Sanders <cyph....DeleteThis@doomstone.co.uk> spoke these staves:
>
> ><snip>
>
> >> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play on the
> >> latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by Pterry
> >> specifically for this pun.
>
> >Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the intended meaning,
> >do you guess?
>
> The word has no meaning, it's Moist making a verbal typo. It appears
> to be nothing more than a hook to hang a Vetinari quip on.
>
> "Ursury" does imply bears via the Latin, but that's all - the
> 'cruelty' bit comes from mixing in the real meaning of the intended
> word 'usury'.
>
> Seen by itself, "ursury" doesn't have any roots that imply cruelty.
>
> >I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or mispronounced
> >'ursery' -- occasional such mistakes almost asks for being understood
> >for what they might really mean rather than what the speaker intended
> >
>
> I think this is most likely, indeed!
>
>         Cheers - Jaimie
> --
> If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

Troels Forchhammer wrote:
> In message <news:8tydnZ6qva2HqPbVnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com>
> Kieran Sanders <cypher1 DeleteThis @doomstone.co.uk> spoke these staves:
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play on the
>> latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by Pterry
>> specifically for this pun.
>
> Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the intended meaning,
> do you guess?
>
> A place for (keeping) bears? A 'bearish' behaviour? Some action done
> to bears? I suppose the second wouldn't be cruelty to bears, but I
> both the place for keeping (or doing something else to) bears (e.g.
> 'fishery') and the action done to or with bears could easily be cruel.
> My first impression was simply a word that could refer to the bear
> cave at the zoo ('come on, Charlie, let's go down to the ursery'),
> but the cruelty bit confused me somewhat.
>
> I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or mispronounced
> 'ursery' -- occasional such mistakes almost asks for being understood
> for what they might really mean rather than what the speaker intended
>

--
Stacie, fourth swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons & Bondage-happy predator
AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion & AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED
"If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a horrible
warning." Catherine Aird, _His Burial Too_
http://esmeraldus.blogspot.com/
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

Troels Forchhammer wrote:
> In message <news:8tydnZ6qva2HqPbVnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com>
> Kieran Sanders <cypher1.DeleteThis@doomstone.co.uk> spoke these staves:
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play on the
>> latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by Pterry
>> specifically for this pun.
>
> Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the intended meaning,
> do you guess?

<snip>

> I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or mispronounced
> 'ursery'

Wouldn't surprise me. I'm a native English speaker with (this is relevant
here) advanced degrees in English, including the teaching of it--and that
specific word is one I avoid using, because it seems to INVITE that
particular mistake. For me, anyway, and I don't think I'm the only victim.
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

On 2008-07-04, Esmeraldus <mucluc59121.RemoveThis@mypacks.net> wrote:
> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>> In message <news:8tydnZ6qva2HqPbVnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com>
>> Kieran Sanders <cypher1.RemoveThis@doomstone.co.uk> spoke these staves:
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play on the
>>> latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by Pterry
>>> specifically for this pun.
>>
>> Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the intended meaning,
>> do you guess?
>
><snip>
>
>> I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or mispronounced
>> 'ursery'
>
> Wouldn't surprise me. I'm a native English speaker with (this is relevant
> here) advanced degrees in English, including the teaching of it--and that
> specific word is one I avoid using, because it seems to INVITE that
> particular mistake. For me, anyway, and I don't think I'm the only victim.

It could also be a very subtle allusion to the fact that the Tower of
London use to be both a mint (late 1200s-early 1800s) and a zoo (including
probably bears) (1200s-1800s)

I agree that the pronunciation error is common.

--
\----
|\* | Emma Pease Net Spinster
|_\/ Die Luft der Freiheit weht
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

In a speech called
slrng6th9u.rtn.er_pease.DeleteThis@vine5.stanford.edu.stanford.edu,
Emma Pease <er_pease.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> said:
> On 2008-07-04, Esmeraldus <mucluc59121.DeleteThis@mypacks.net> wrote:
>> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>>> In message <news:8tydnZ6qva2HqPbVnZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com>
>>> Kieran Sanders <cypher1.DeleteThis@doomstone.co.uk> spoke these staves:
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play on
>>>> the latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by Pterry
>>>> specifically for this pun.
>>>
>>> Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the intended
>>> meaning, do you guess?
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or
>>> mispronounced 'ursery'
>>
>> Wouldn't surprise me. I'm a native English speaker with (this
>> is relevant here) advanced degrees in English, including the
>> teaching of it--and that specific word is one I avoid using,
>> because it seems to INVITE that particular mistake. For me,
>> anyway, and I don't think I'm the only victim.
>
> It could also be a very subtle allusion to the fact that the
> Tower of London use to be both a mint (late 1200s-early 1800s)
> and a zoo (including probably bears) (1200s-1800s)

That's not saying much. The Tower of London has, at various points
throughout its' history, been almost everything. Palace,
stronghold, barracks, bank, warehouse, prison, interrogation
centre, armoury, treasury (ie. a place to deposit treasure),
museum, showpiece to cow the natives, showpiece to cow the
foreigners, tourist attraction, place of execution, as well as the
aforementioned bank and zoo.


--
www.sabremeister.me.uk
www.livejournal.com/users/sabremeister/
Use brian at sabremeister dot me dot uk to reply
Have Sword & Sorcery: Will Travel (TM)
Now available at http://stores.lulu.com/brian1173
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

Sabremeister Brian wrote:

> That's not saying much. The Tower of London has, at various points
> throughout its' history, been almost everything. Palace,
> stronghold, barracks, bank, warehouse, prison, interrogation
> centre, armoury, treasury (ie. a place to deposit treasure),
> museum, showpiece to cow the natives, showpiece to cow the
> foreigners, tourist attraction, place of execution, as well as the
> aforementioned bank and zoo.

A classic example of How Buildings Learn (an excellent book by Stewart
Brand - highly recommended). This is the High Road to learning: big,
important buildings are constantly adapted to fit the changing needs of
succeeding centuries. The other road, the Low Road, is small unimportant
buidigns which people feel free to knock around, add to and take from,
just as they need. A classic example might be my home, which probaby
started life as two cow sheds a few feet apart. The ones in the middle,
paradoxically probably their first owner's pride and joy, are to goof to
just bash around, but not good enough to greatly alter, grow old, fall
into disrepair, and are demolished
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

In article <6d838jF1bh5lU1.RemoveThis@mid.individual.net>,
Sabremeister Brian <bpwakeling.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Emma Pease <er_pease.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> said:
>> On 2008-07-04, Esmeraldus <mucluc59121.RemoveThis@mypacks.net> wrote:
>>> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>>>> Kieran Sanders <cypher1.RemoveThis@doomstone.co.uk> spoke these staves:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play on
>>>>> the latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by Pterry
>>>>> specifically for this pun.
>>>>
>>>> Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the intended
>>>> meaning, do you guess?
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or
>>>> mispronounced 'ursery'
>>>
>>> Wouldn't surprise me. I'm a native English speaker with (this
>>> is relevant here) advanced degrees in English, including the
>>> teaching of it--and that specific word is one I avoid using,
>>> because it seems to INVITE that particular mistake. For me,
>>> anyway, and I don't think I'm the only victim.
>>
>> It could also be a very subtle allusion to the fact that the
>> Tower of London use to be both a mint (late 1200s-early 1800s)
>> and a zoo (including probably bears) (1200s-1800s)
>
>That's not saying much. The Tower of London has, at various points
>throughout its history, been almost everything. Palace,
>stronghold, barracks, bank, warehouse, prison, interrogation
>centre, armoury, treasury (ie. a place to deposit treasure),
>museum, showpiece to cow the natives, showpiece to cow the
>foreigners, tourist attraction, place of execution, as well as the
>aforementioned bank and zoo.

On the other hand, "cruelty to bears" brings to mind bear-baiting
and the various "bear gardens" that existed in London and elsewhere.
The concept of a purely scientific zoological garden is comparatively
recent (18th century for the word); it seems possible to me (a non-UK
person) that the "zoo" at the Tower may have occasionally allowed
bear-baiting.

In any case, the combination of a mint and a zoo in the same building
at the same time is now forever[1] linked to the usury-ursery pun, along
with a mental aside to "an ursery/a nursery" since the Tower also at
times housed young princes.

=Tamar
[1] for limited values of "forever"
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

honestly folks, i do see terry punning on latin like he does ever so
often on german, italian, french,...
but the rest is very very far fetched.


On 7 Jul., 06:36, dicc....DeleteThis@radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote:
> In article <6d838jF1bh5....DeleteThis@mid.individual.net>,
>
>
>
> Sabremeister Brian <bpwakel....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Emma Pease <er_pe....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> said:
> >> On 2008-07-04, Esmeraldus <mucluc59....DeleteThis@mypacks.net> wrote:
> >>> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
> >>>> Kieran Sanders <cyph....DeleteThis@doomstone.co.uk> spoke these staves:
>
> >>>> <snip>
>
> >>>>> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play on
> >>>>> the latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by Pterry
> >>>>> specifically for this pun.
>
> >>>> Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the intended
> >>>> meaning, do you guess?
>
> >>> <snip>
>
> >>>> I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or
> >>>> mispronounced 'ursery'
>
> >>> Wouldn't surprise me. I'm a native English speaker with (this
> >>> is relevant here) advanced degrees in English, including the
> >>> teaching of it--and that specific word is one I avoid using,
> >>> because it seems to INVITE that particular mistake. For me,
> >>> anyway, and I don't think I'm the only victim.
>
> >> It could also be a very subtle allusion to the fact that the
> >> Tower of London use to be both a mint (late 1200s-early 1800s)
> >> and a zoo (including probably bears) (1200s-1800s)
>
> >That's not saying much. The Tower of London has, at various points
> >throughout its history, been almost everything. Palace,
> >stronghold, barracks, bank, warehouse, prison, interrogation
> >centre, armoury, treasury (ie. a place to deposit treasure),
> >museum, showpiece to cow the natives, showpiece to cow the
> >foreigners, tourist attraction, place of execution, as well as the
> >aforementioned bank and zoo.
>
> On the other hand, "cruelty to bears" brings to mind bear-baiting
> and the various "bear gardens" that existed in London and elsewhere.
> The concept of a purely scientific zoological garden is comparatively
> recent (18th century for the word); it seems possible to me (a non-UK
> person) that the "zoo" at the Tower may have occasionally allowed
> bear-baiting.
>
> In any case, the combination of a mint and a zoo in the same building
> at the same time is now forever[1] linked to the usury-ursery pun, along
> with a mental aside to "an ursery/a nursery" since the Tower also at
> times housed young princes.
>
> =Tamar
> [1] for limited values of "forever"
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

In a speech called
7556d6d5-f725-41ee-9580-3d6f89934477.TakeThisOut@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
sebi <edelmeier.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> said:

<Top-posting corrected>

> On 7 Jul., 06:36, dicc....TakeThisOut@radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote:
>> In article <6d838jF1bh5....TakeThisOut@mid.individual.net>,
>>
>> Sabremeister Brian <bpwakel....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Emma Pease <er_pe....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> said:
>>>> On 2008-07-04, Esmeraldus <mucluc59....TakeThisOut@mypacks.net> wrote:
>>>>> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>>>>>> Kieran Sanders <cyph....TakeThisOut@doomstone.co.uk> spoke these
>>>>>> staves:
>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>
>>>>>>> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play
>>>>>>> on the latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by
>>>>>>> Pterry specifically for this pun.
>>
>>>>>> Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the
>>>>>> intended meaning, do you guess?
>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>
>>>>>> I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or
>>>>>> mispronounced 'ursery'
>>
>>>>> Wouldn't surprise me. I'm a native English speaker with
>>>>> (this is relevant here) advanced degrees in English,
>>>>> including the teaching of it--and that specific word is one
>>>>> I avoid using, because it seems to INVITE that particular
>>>>> mistake. For me, anyway, and I don't think I'm the only
>>>>> victim.
>>
>>>> It could also be a very subtle allusion to the fact that the
>>>> Tower of London use to be both a mint (late 1200s-early
>>>> 1800s) and a zoo (including probably bears) (1200s-1800s)
>>
>>> That's not saying much. The Tower of London has, at various
>>> points throughout its history, been almost everything. Palace,
>>> stronghold, barracks, bank, warehouse, prison, interrogation
>>> centre, armoury, treasury (ie. a place to deposit treasure),
>>> museum, showpiece to cow the natives, showpiece to cow the
>>> foreigners, tourist attraction, place of execution, as well
>>> as the aforementioned bank and zoo.
>>
>> On the other hand, "cruelty to bears" brings to mind
>> bear-baiting
>> and the various "bear gardens" that existed in London and
>> elsewhere. The concept of a purely scientific zoological
>> garden is comparatively recent (18th century for the word); it
>> seems possible to me (a non-UK person) that the "zoo" at the
>> Tower may have occasionally allowed bear-baiting.
>>
>> In any case, the combination of a mint and a zoo in the same
>> building at the same time is now forever[1] linked to the
>> usury-ursery pun, along with a mental aside to "an ursery/a
>> nursery" since the Tower also at times housed young princes.
>>
>> =Tamar
>> [1] for limited values of "forever"

> honestly folks, i do see terry punning on latin like he does
> ever so often on german, italian, french,...
> but the rest is very very far fetched.

So, you can see PTerry punning in a dead language and three
foreign ones, but not his native one?
Or is it that you consider the multi-functionality of the White
Tower, or the concept of the modern zoo, to be far fetched?


--
www.sabremeister.me.uk
www.livejournal.com/users/sabremeister/
Use brian at sabremeister dot me dot uk to reply
Have Sword & Sorcery: Will Travel (TM)
Now available at http://stores.lulu.com/brian1173
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

it's getting discussy now, great

what i mean - after having the translation - is that it is way more
likely that
he used the pun on the word-stem, because - if i'm any judge - he
likes witty
jokes, but also likes them understood by most of his readers.

well, let's not heat this up unneccessarily, shall we? thanks again to
all who helped me here.

On 10 Jul., 07:50, "Sabremeister Brian" <bpwakel... RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:
> In a speech called
> 7556d6d5-f725-41ee-9580-3d6f89934... RemoveThis @y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
> sebi <edelme... RemoveThis @gmail.com> said:
>
> <Top-posting corrected>
>
>
>
> > On 7 Jul., 06:36, dicc... RemoveThis @radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote:
> >> In article <6d838jF1bh5... RemoveThis @mid.individual.net>,
>
> >> Sabremeister Brian <bpwakel... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Emma Pease <er_pe... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> said:
> >>>> On 2008-07-04, Esmeraldus <mucluc59... RemoveThis @mypacks.net> wrote:
> >>>>> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
> >>>>>> Kieran Sanders <cyph... RemoveThis @doomstone.co.uk> spoke these
> >>>>>> staves:
>
> >>>>>> <snip>
>
> >>>>>>> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play
> >>>>>>> on the latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by
> >>>>>>> Pterry specifically for this pun.
>
> >>>>>> Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the
> >>>>>> intended meaning, do you guess?
>
> >>>>> <snip>
>
> >>>>>> I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or
> >>>>>> mispronounced 'ursery'
>
> >>>>> Wouldn't surprise me. I'm a native English speaker with
> >>>>> (this is relevant here) advanced degrees in English,
> >>>>> including the teaching of it--and that specific word is one
> >>>>> I avoid using, because it seems to INVITE that particular
> >>>>> mistake. For me, anyway, and I don't think I'm the only
> >>>>> victim.
>
> >>>> It could also be a very subtle allusion to the fact that the
> >>>> Tower of London use to be both a mint (late 1200s-early
> >>>> 1800s) and a zoo (including probably bears) (1200s-1800s)
>
> >>> That's not saying much. The Tower of London has, at various
> >>> points throughout its history, been almost everything. Palace,
> >>> stronghold, barracks, bank, warehouse, prison, interrogation
> >>> centre, armoury, treasury (ie. a place to deposit treasure),
> >>> museum, showpiece to cow the natives, showpiece to cow the
> >>> foreigners, tourist attraction, place of execution, as well
> >>> as the aforementioned bank and zoo.
>
> >> On the other hand, "cruelty to bears" brings to mind
> >> bear-baiting
> >> and the various "bear gardens" that existed in London and
> >> elsewhere. The concept of a purely scientific zoological
> >> garden is comparatively recent (18th century for the word); it
> >> seems possible to me (a non-UK person) that the "zoo" at the
> >> Tower may have occasionally allowed bear-baiting.
>
> >> In any case, the combination of a mint and a zoo in the same
> >> building at the same time is now forever[1] linked to the
> >> usury-ursery pun, along with a mental aside to "an ursery/a
> >> nursery" since the Tower also at times housed young princes.
>
> >> =Tamar
> >> [1] for limited values of "forever"
> > honestly folks, i do see terry punning on latin like he does
> > ever so often on german, italian, french,...
> > but the rest is very very far fetched.
>
> So, you can see PTerry punning in a dead language and three
> foreign ones, but not his native one?
> Or is it that you consider the multi-functionality of the White
> Tower, or the concept of the modern zoo, to be far fetched?
>
> --www.sabremeister.me.ukwww.livejournal.com/users/sabremeister/
> Use brian at sabremeister dot me dot uk to reply
> Have Sword & Sorcery: Will Travel (TM)
> Now available athttp://stores.lulu.com/brian1173
 >> Stay informed about: Making Money : Vocabulary / Idiom Question 

On Jul 15, 12:43 pm, sebi <edelme....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> it's getting discussy now, great
>
> what i mean - after having the translation - is that it is way more
> likely that
> he used the pun on the word-stem, because - if i'm any judge - he
> likes witty
> jokes, but also likes them understood by most of his readers.
>
> well, let's not heat this up unneccessarily, shall we? thanks again to
> all who helped me here.
>
> On 10 Jul., 07:50, "Sabremeister Brian" <bpwakel....DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > In a speech called
> > 7556d6d5-f725-41ee-9580-3d6f89934....DeleteThis@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
> > sebi <edelme....DeleteThis@gmail.com> said:
>
> > <Top-posting corrected>
>
> > > On 7 Jul., 06:36, dicc....DeleteThis@radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote:
> > >> In article <6d838jF1bh5....DeleteThis@mid.individual.net>,
>
> > >> Sabremeister Brian <bpwakel....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> Emma Pease <er_pe....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> said:
> > >>>> On 2008-07-04, Esmeraldus <mucluc59....DeleteThis@mypacks.net> wrote:
> > >>>>> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
> > >>>>>> Kieran Sanders <cyph....DeleteThis@doomstone.co.uk> spoke these
> > >>>>>> staves:
>
> > >>>>>> <snip>
>
> > >>>>>>> Ursery isn't a "real" word, as far as I know. It's a play
> > >>>>>>> on the latin for Bear - Ursus/Ursa, presumably created by
> > >>>>>>> Pterry specifically for this pun.
>
> > >>>>>> Another non-native speaker, here. What would be the
> > >>>>>> intended meaning, do you guess?
>
> > >>>>> <snip>
>
> > >>>>>> I wonder if Pterry has seen 'usury' misspelled or
> > >>>>>> mispronounced 'ursery'
>
> > >>>>> Wouldn't surprise me. I'm a native English speaker with
> > >>>>> (this is relevant here) advanced degrees in English,
> > >>>>> including the teaching of it--and that specific word is one
> > >>>>> I avoid using, because it seems to INVITE that particular
> > >>>>> mistake. For me, anyway, and I don't think I'm the only
> > >>>>> victim.
>
> > >>>> It could also be a very subtle allusion to the fact that the
> > >>>> Tower of London use to be both a mint (late 1200s-early
> > >>>> 1800s) and a zoo (including probably bears) (1200s-1800s)
>
> > >>> That's not saying much. The Tower of London has, at various
> > >>> points throughout its history, been almost everything. Palace,
> > >>> stronghold, barracks, bank, warehouse, prison, interrogation
> > >>> centre, armoury, treasury (ie. a place to deposit treasure),
> > >>> museum, showpiece to cow the natives, showpiece to cow the
> > >>> foreigners, tourist attraction, place of execution, as well
> > >>> as the aforementioned bank and zoo.
>
> > >> On the other hand, "cruelty to bears" brings to mind
> > >> bear-baiting
> > >> and the various "bear gardens" that existed in London and
> > >> elsewhere. The concept of a purely scientific zoological
> > >> garden is comparatively recent (18th century for the word); it
> > >> seems possible to me (a non-UK person) that the "zoo" at the
> > >> Tower may have occasionally allowed bear-baiting.
>
> > >> In any case, the combination of a mint and a zoo in the same
> > >> building at the same time is now forever[1] linked to the
> > >> usury-ursery pun, along with a mental aside to "an ursery/a
> > >> nursery" since the Tower also at times housed young princes.
>
> > >> =Tamar
> > >> [1] for limited values of "forever"
> > > honestly folks, i do see terry punning on latin like he does
> > > ever so often on german, italian, french,...
> > > but the rest is very very far fetched.
>
> > So, you can see PTerry punning in a dead language and three
> > foreign ones, but not his native one?
> > Or is it that you consider the multi-functionality of the White
> > Tower, or the concept of the modern zoo, to be far fetched?
>
> > --www.sabremeister.me.ukwww.livejournal.com/users/sabremeister/
> > Use brian at sabremeister dot me dot uk to reply
> > Have Sword & Sorcery: Will Travel (TM)
> > Now available athttp://stores.lulu.com/brian1173

Don't you think it is partly a play on "bearing interest"? Usury (at
least in America) is illegally high interest. And promissory notes
"bear" interest. Ursury riffs on both the mispronunciation Stacie
noted and the "bear" in "bearing interest."
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