Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!?

On Aug 20, 10:39 pm, Dan McEwen wrote:
> wrote:
> > So now Age of Apocalypse is 'normal' continuity? Multiple worlds exist
> > DC style? Magneto was Xorn (cool!) but wait, he wasn't really (ugh)?!?
>
> AoA was retconned into a standard alternate reality. There have been
> multiple worlds since 1971 when the Avengers met the Squadron Supreme.

Oh I see.

For me it makes the original AOA lose it's impact.

> > Why the constant bait-and-switch?
>
> If you mean, why did they get rid of Magneto as Xorn and replace it with
> Xorn as Magneto as Xorn? Poor judgment.
>
> > And why won't editors let the writers write?
>
> Too much money to be made in crossovers, even if they're very poorly
> coordinated.

But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write.
Isn't Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless?
Why undo Xorn being Magneto?

> > If what I understand they did with Magneto is true, that's a
> > disgrace. How can one have any respect for any story that they know
> > will just be rendered irrelevant by some "executive board" on a whim?
>
> This isn't news, really.

Well I haven't read comics in half a decade. JUst felt nostalgic and
have done hours of reading, catching up the past couple of days.

>Marvel and DC have been doing this for many years now. See: Crisis on Infinite >Earths.

I know about DC. One reason I prefered Marvel was generally, they
kept paralell worlds at a minimum, they appear to have gone all out
now.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

On Aug 21, 1:22 pm, Dan McEwen wrote:
> wrote innews:1187703249.719288.66880@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Aug 20, 10:39 pm, Dan McEwen wrote:
> >> wrote:
> >> > So now Age of Apocalypse is 'normal' continuity? Multiple worlds
> >> > exist DC style? Magneto was Xorn (cool!) but wait, he wasn't really
> >> > (ugh)?!?
>
> >> AoA was retconned into a standard alternate reality. There have been
> >> multiple worlds since 1971 when the Avengers met the Squadron
> >> Supreme.
>
> > Oh I see.
>
> > For me it makes the original AOA lose it's impact.
>
> Me, too. In fact, the whole thing about certain characters entering the
> M'Krann Crystal in order to survive the reality change now makes no
> sense. Further, a more recent mini set in AoA sucked badly.

Just look at it this way. Instead of making it so 616 was the only
reality left and it had been altered to the AOA the M'Krann
crystalization effect meant that only the AOA reality existed and 616
was wiped out.

JLB
>
> >> Too much money to be made in crossovers, even if they're very poorly
> >> coordinated.
>
> > But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write.
> > Isn't Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless?
> > Why undo Xorn being Magneto?
>
> Morrison left and went to DC. They had no obligation to worry about
> what he wanted anymore.
>
> >> > If what I understand they did with Magneto is true, that's a
> >> > disgrace. How can one have any respect for any story that they
> >> > know will just be rendered irrelevant by some "executive board" on
> >> > a whim?
>
> >> This isn't news, really.
>
> > Well I haven't read comics in half a decade. JUst felt nostalgic and
> > have done hours of reading, catching up the past couple of days.
>
> That's no excuse!
>
> I just meant that this sort of thing has always been done.
>
> >>Marvel and DC have been doing this for many years now. See: Crisis on
> >>Infinite >Earths.
>
> > I know about DC. One reason I prefered Marvel was generally, they
> > kept paralell worlds at a minimum, they appear to have gone all out
> > now.
>
> Not really. Other than the Ultimate Universe and the Squadron Supreme
> Universe, the others pretty much don't mean anything.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

wrote in


> On Aug 20, 10:39 pm, Dan McEwen wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > So now Age of Apocalypse is 'normal' continuity? Multiple worlds
>> > exist DC style? Magneto was Xorn (cool!) but wait, he wasn't really
>> > (ugh)?!?
>>
>> AoA was retconned into a standard alternate reality. There have been
>> multiple worlds since 1971 when the Avengers met the Squadron
>> Supreme.
>
> Oh I see.
>
> For me it makes the original AOA lose it's impact.

Me, too. In fact, the whole thing about certain characters entering the
M'Krann Crystal in order to survive the reality change now makes no
sense. Further, a more recent mini set in AoA sucked badly.

>> Too much money to be made in crossovers, even if they're very poorly
>> coordinated.
>
> But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write.
> Isn't Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless?
> Why undo Xorn being Magneto?

Morrison left and went to DC. They had no obligation to worry about
what he wanted anymore.

>> > If what I understand they did with Magneto is true, that's a
>> > disgrace. How can one have any respect for any story that they
>> > know will just be rendered irrelevant by some "executive board" on
>> > a whim?
>>
>> This isn't news, really.
>
> Well I haven't read comics in half a decade. JUst felt nostalgic and
> have done hours of reading, catching up the past couple of days.

That's no excuse!

I just meant that this sort of thing has always been done.

>>Marvel and DC have been doing this for many years now. See: Crisis on
>>Infinite >Earths.
>
> I know about DC. One reason I prefered Marvel was generally, they
> kept paralell worlds at a minimum, they appear to have gone all out
> now.

Not really. Other than the Ultimate Universe and the Squadron Supreme
Universe, the others pretty much don't mean anything.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:34:09 +0000, wanyikuli wrote:

> On Aug 20, 10:39 pm, Dan McEwen wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > So now Age of Apocalypse is 'normal' continuity? Multiple worlds exist
>> > DC style? Magneto was Xorn (cool!) but wait, he wasn't really (ugh)?!?
>>
>> AoA was retconned into a standard alternate reality. There have been
>> multiple worlds since 1971 when the Avengers met the Squadron Supreme.
>
> Oh I see.
>
> For me it makes the original AOA lose it's impact.
>
>> > Why the constant bait-and-switch?
>>
>> If you mean, why did they get rid of Magneto as Xorn and replace it with
>> Xorn as Magneto as Xorn? Poor judgment.
>>
>> > And why won't editors let the writers write?
>>
>> Too much money to be made in crossovers, even if they're very poorly
>> coordinated.
>
> But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write. Isn't
> Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless? Why undo
> Xorn being Magneto?

I assume it's because Marvel wants Magneto as an antihero rather than a
complete villain. If he'd done everything Morrison wrote him as doing,
even with the excuse of being doped out of his mind, he'd be irredeemable.


>> > If what I understand they did with Magneto is true, that's a disgrace.
>> > How can one have any respect for any story that they know will just
>> > be rendered irrelevant by some "executive board" on a whim?
>>
>> This isn't news, really.
>
> Well I haven't read comics in half a decade. JUst felt nostalgic and have
> done hours of reading, catching up the past couple of days.
>
>>Marvel and DC have been doing this for many years now. See: Crisis on
>>Infinite >Earths.
>
> I know about DC. One reason I prefered Marvel was generally, they kept
> paralell worlds at a minimum, they appear to have gone all out now.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

mimf wrote in


> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:34:09 +0000, wanyikuli wrote:

>>> > And why won't editors let the writers write?
>>>
>>> Too much money to be made in crossovers, even if they're very poorly
>>> coordinated.
>>
>> But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write.
>> Isn't Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless?
>> Why undo Xorn being Magneto?
>
> I assume it's because Marvel wants Magneto as an antihero rather than
> a complete villain. If he'd done everything Morrison wrote him as
> doing, even with the excuse of being doped out of his mind, he'd be
> irredeemable.

Having just gone through Morrison's run the other day, it becomes clear
that Kick - which is actually Sublime - was exerting a lot more
influence on users than it otherwise seemed. Sublim affected the U-Men,
Kick, Cassandra Nova, Esme of the Cuckoos, Kid Omega, and Magneto. The
entire run centered around how Sublime made everything snowball.

BTW, Here Comes Tomorrow also mentioned that Beast lied when he said
he'd cured the E-Gene. If mutants die out, the human race isn't far
behind.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:30:51 -0400, mimf wrote:

>On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:34:09 +0000, wanyikuli wrote:
>
>> On Aug 20, 10:39 pm, Dan McEwen wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>> > So now Age of Apocalypse is 'normal' continuity? Multiple worlds exist
>>> > DC style? Magneto was Xorn (cool!) but wait, he wasn't really (ugh)?!?
>>>
>>> AoA was retconned into a standard alternate reality. There have been
>>> multiple worlds since 1971 when the Avengers met the Squadron Supreme.
>>
>> Oh I see.
>>
>> For me it makes the original AOA lose it's impact.
>>
>>> > Why the constant bait-and-switch?
>>>
>>> If you mean, why did they get rid of Magneto as Xorn and replace it with
>>> Xorn as Magneto as Xorn? Poor judgment.
>>>
>>> > And why won't editors let the writers write?
>>>
>>> Too much money to be made in crossovers, even if they're very poorly
>>> coordinated.
>>
>> But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write. Isn't
>> Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless? Why undo
>> Xorn being Magneto?
>
>I assume it's because Marvel wants Magneto as an antihero rather than a
>complete villain. If he'd done everything Morrison wrote him as doing,
>even with the excuse of being doped out of his mind, he'd be irredeemable.

They probably like him better with his head attached too.

>
>
>>> > If what I understand they did with Magneto is true, that's a disgrace.
>>> > How can one have any respect for any story that they know will just
>>> > be rendered irrelevant by some "executive board" on a whim?
>>>
>>> This isn't news, really.
>>
>> Well I haven't read comics in half a decade. JUst felt nostalgic and have
>> done hours of reading, catching up the past couple of days.
>>
>>>Marvel and DC have been doing this for many years now. See: Crisis on
>>>Infinite >Earths.
>>
>> I know about DC. One reason I prefered Marvel was generally, they kept
>> paralell worlds at a minimum, they appear to have gone all out now.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:26:37 -0500, grinningdemon wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:30:51 -0400, mimf wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:34:09 +0000, wanyikuli wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 20, 10:39 pm, Dan McEwen wrote:
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > So now Age of Apocalypse is 'normal' continuity? Multiple worlds
>>>> > exist DC style? Magneto was Xorn (cool!) but wait, he wasn't really
>>>> > (ugh)?!?
>>>>
>>>> AoA was retconned into a standard alternate reality. There have been
>>>> multiple worlds since 1971 when the Avengers met the Squadron Supreme.
>>>
>>> Oh I see.
>>>
>>> For me it makes the original AOA lose it's impact.
>>>
>>>> > Why the constant bait-and-switch?
>>>>
>>>> If you mean, why did they get rid of Magneto as Xorn and replace it
>>>> with Xorn as Magneto as Xorn? Poor judgment.
>>>>
>>>> > And why won't editors let the writers write?
>>>>
>>>> Too much money to be made in crossovers, even if they're very poorly
>>>> coordinated.
>>>
>>> But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write. Isn't
>>> Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless? Why
>>> undo Xorn being Magneto?
>>
>>I assume it's because Marvel wants Magneto as an antihero rather than a
>>complete villain. If he'd done everything Morrison wrote him as doing,
>>even with the excuse of being doped out of his mind, he'd be
>>irredeemable.
>
> They probably like him better with his head attached too.

That's easier to fix though. In the Marvel universe it's easier to bring
characters back from the dead than it is to fix their character.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:26:11 +0000, Dan McEwen wrote:

> mimf wrote in
>
>
>> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:34:09 +0000, wanyikuli wrote:
>
>>>> > And why won't editors let the writers write?
>>>>
>>>> Too much money to be made in crossovers, even if they're very poorly
>>>> coordinated.
>>>
>>> But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write. Isn't
>>> Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless? Why
>>> undo Xorn being Magneto?
>>
>> I assume it's because Marvel wants Magneto as an antihero rather than a
>> complete villain. If he'd done everything Morrison wrote him as doing,
>> even with the excuse of being doped out of his mind, he'd be
>> irredeemable.
>
> Having just gone through Morrison's run the other day, it becomes clear
> that Kick - which is actually Sublime - was exerting a lot more influence
> on users than it otherwise seemed. Sublim affected the U-Men, Kick,
> Cassandra Nova, Esme of the Cuckoos, Kid Omega, and Magneto. The entire
> run centered around how Sublime made everything snowball.

Morrison's Magneto still did what he did though. If you kill someone while
you're high, you're still responsible and people remember you for it. They
think there's some part of you that would want to do that, even when not
high.

> BTW, Here Comes Tomorrow also mentioned that Beast lied when he said
> he'd cured the E-Gene. If mutants die out, the human race isn't far
> behind.

That would have been an interesting story idea to have followed up on, but
I think they've dropped it. The E-Gene might explain why the High
Evolutionary "evolves" animals instead of people.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

On Aug 22, 12:30 pm, mimf wrote:

> > But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write. Isn't
> > Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless? Why undo
> > Xorn being Magneto?
>
> I assume it's because Marvel wants Magneto as an antihero rather than a
> complete villain. If he'd done everything Morrison wrote him as doing,
> even with the excuse of being doped out of his mind, he'd be irredeemable.

I wish they'd have chosen someone like Sinister then. The way they
did it is like pulling out the carpet underneath their readers.

I understand a lot of readers were not happy with what Morrisson had
Magneto do though (but he was doped!!)?
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:23:56 +0000, wanyikuli wrote:

> On Aug 22, 12:30 pm, mimf wrote:
>
>> > But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write.
>> > Isn't Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless?
>> > Why undo Xorn being Magneto?
>>
>> I assume it's because Marvel wants Magneto as an antihero rather than a
>> complete villain. If he'd done everything Morrison wrote him as doing,
>> even with the excuse of being doped out of his mind, he'd be
>> irredeemable.
>
> I wish they'd have chosen someone like Sinister then. The way they did it
> is like pulling out the carpet underneath their readers.

Sinister as Xorn? My understanding is that when Apocalypse gave Sinister
his powers he removed all his emotions. So Sinister wouldn't hate
anything, and the "becoming what he hated because of the drug" angle
wouldn't work.

> I understand a lot of readers were not happy with what Morrisson had
> Magneto do though (but he was doped!!)?

But in Morrison's story he doped himself, and there's some argument about
whether Magneto would take drugs or not. Where would he get them in bombed
out Genosha anyway?
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:59:00 -0400, mimf wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:26:37 -0500, grinningdemon wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:30:51 -0400, mimf wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:34:09 +0000, wanyikuli wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Aug 20, 10:39 pm, Dan McEwen wrote:
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > So now Age of Apocalypse is 'normal' continuity? Multiple worlds
>>>>> > exist DC style? Magneto was Xorn (cool!) but wait, he wasn't really
>>>>> > (ugh)?!?
>>>>>
>>>>> AoA was retconned into a standard alternate reality. There have been
>>>>> multiple worlds since 1971 when the Avengers met the Squadron Supreme.
>>>>
>>>> Oh I see.
>>>>
>>>> For me it makes the original AOA lose it's impact.
>>>>
>>>>> > Why the constant bait-and-switch?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you mean, why did they get rid of Magneto as Xorn and replace it
>>>>> with Xorn as Magneto as Xorn? Poor judgment.
>>>>>
>>>>> > And why won't editors let the writers write?
>>>>>
>>>>> Too much money to be made in crossovers, even if they're very poorly
>>>>> coordinated.
>>>>
>>>> But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write. Isn't
>>>> Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold regardless? Why
>>>> undo Xorn being Magneto?
>>>
>>>I assume it's because Marvel wants Magneto as an antihero rather than a
>>>complete villain. If he'd done everything Morrison wrote him as doing,
>>>even with the excuse of being doped out of his mind, he'd be
>>>irredeemable.
>>
>> They probably like him better with his head attached too.
>
>That's easier to fix though. In the Marvel universe it's easier to bring
>characters back from the dead than it is to fix their character.

Marvel doesn't bother with consistent characterization anymore so it's
pretty much a moot point.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

wrote in


> On Aug 22, 12:30 pm, mimf wrote:
>
>> > But that assumes they'd make any less money if the writers write.
>> > Isn't Grant Morrison enough of a star that he'd have sold
>> > regardless? Why undo Xorn being Magneto?
>>
>> I assume it's because Marvel wants Magneto as an antihero rather than
>> a complete villain. If he'd done everything Morrison wrote him as
>> doing, even with the excuse of being doped out of his mind, he'd be
>> irredeemable.
>
> I wish they'd have chosen someone like Sinister then. The way they
> did it is like pulling out the carpet underneath their readers.
>
> I understand a lot of readers were not happy with what Morrisson had
> Magneto do though (but he was doped!!)?

He was pretty much "forced" by an entity called Sublime. It's some sort
of sentient bacteria(?) that's been around for billions of years. It
wanted to destroy mutants and was using anyone who used Kick (an aerosol
drug that was actually composed of Sublime) to accomplish its goal.
Morrison's entire run of New X-Men was really one big arc. It required
reading the whole thing to fully understand it all. The intricacies of
it wouldn't be readily appparent to a casual reader.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!? 

mimf wrote in


> On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:23:56 +0000, wanyikuli wrote:

>> I understand a lot of readers were not happy with what Morrisson had
>> Magneto do though (but he was doped!!)?
>
> But in Morrison's story he doped himself, and there's some argument
> about whether Magneto would take drugs or not. Where would he get them
> in bombed out Genosha anyway?

Didn't Magneto use Fabian Cortez to do exactly the same thing? With
Cortez not around, he found something else. If you read Planet X, you
see that Magneto never intended to use Kick on a continual basis. As
for where he got it...couldn't you ask the same thing about a guy
trapped in a Chinese prison since he was young? Magneto - or Xorn - had
plenty of time free from prison to get whatever he needed.
 >> Stay informed about: Former X-Men Reader. Magneto?!? AOA??!?