Messiah Complex ending [spoilers]

On Feb 17, 4:18 pm, "J. Mayer" wrote:
> "The Black Guardian" wrote in messagenews:8cdfa253-ffa2-4340-a4cf-4514bfd16f43@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > J. Mayer wrote:
> >> I finally read the final issues of the Messiah Complex crossover.
> >> On the last page, everyone is standing around staring at Prof. X's
> >> body, then the very last panel his body is gone. Huh? Then in
> >> Uncanny X-Men 495, Scott mentions that they don't know if Prof. X
> >> is really dead or not? Huh? A bad ending to a good and interesting
> >> storyline...
>
> > Xavier is not dead.
> > Acolytes.
> > Tempo.
> > Stop time.
> > Xavier disappears.
>
> > Xavier's getting his own series.
>
> I know that thre will be a series regarding Xavier. My complaint centers
> around the poor writing in setting this up. Everyone is standing around
> looking at Xavier. Then Xavier disappears... with no reaction at all from
> the group.

I think the sudden change meant that no one reacts in time. (Other
than Beast who sticks a hand out.)
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

"The Black Guardian" wrote in message

> J. Mayer wrote:
>> I finally read the final issues of the Messiah Complex crossover.
>> On the last page, everyone is standing around staring at Prof. X's
>> body, then the very last panel his body is gone. Huh? Then in
>> Uncanny X-Men 495, Scott mentions that they don't know if Prof. X
>> is really dead or not? Huh? A bad ending to a good and interesting
>> storyline...
>
> Xavier is not dead.
> Acolytes.
> Tempo.
> Stop time.
> Xavier disappears.
>
> Xavier's getting his own series.

I know that thre will be a series regarding Xavier. My complaint centers
around the poor writing in setting this up. Everyone is standing around
looking at Xavier. Then Xavier disappears... with no reaction at all from
the group.
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:27:54 -0500, "J. Mayer"
wrote:

>I finally read the final issues of the Messiah Complex crossover. On the
>last page, everyone is standing around staring at Prof. X's body, then the
>very last panel his body is gone. Huh? Then in Uncanny X-Men 495, Scott
>mentions that they don't know if Prof. X is really dead or not? Huh? A bad
>ending to a good and interesting storyline... other than bad art esp in
>chapter 12... I don't have a problem with the decision to kill Prof X. It's
>just how that last panel was handled and then for his death to be
>questioned. It just didn't make sense.

This is exactly what I thought about the ending of Spectacular
Spider-Man #200. I think the *editors* changed their minds about the
respective endings at the last minute, with Harry originally surviving
and Xavier dying, but reversing the decisions so far beyond the last
minute as to be editorial incompetence on the part of the person
making the decision.

-- Rob
--
LORELAI: I am so done with plans. I am never, ever making one again.
It never works. I spend the day obsessing over why it didn't work
and what I could've done differently. I'm analyzing all my shortcomings
when all I really need to be doing is vowing to never, ever make a plan
ever again, which I'm doing now, having once again been the innocent
victim of my own stupid plans. God, I need some coffee.
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

wrote in message

> On Feb 17, 4:18 pm, "J. Mayer" wrote:
> > "The Black Guardian" wrote in
messagenews:8cdfa253-ffa2-4340-a4cf-4514bfd16f43@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.co
m...
> >
> > > J. Mayer wrote:
> > >> I finally read the final issues of the Messiah Complex crossover.
> > >> On the last page, everyone is standing around staring at Prof. X's
> > >> body, then the very last panel his body is gone. Huh? Then in
> > >> Uncanny X-Men 495, Scott mentions that they don't know if Prof. X
> > >> is really dead or not? Huh? A bad ending to a good and interesting
> > >> storyline...
> >
> > > Xavier is not dead.
> > > Acolytes.
> > > Tempo.
> > > Stop time.
> > > Xavier disappears.
> >
> > > Xavier's getting his own series.
> >
> > I know that thre will be a series regarding Xavier. My complaint centers
> > around the poor writing in setting this up. Everyone is standing around
> > looking at Xavier. Then Xavier disappears... with no reaction at all
from
> > the group.
>
> I think the sudden change meant that no one reacts in time. (Other
> than Beast who sticks a hand out.)

Yes, but for that ending to be effective, the X-Men need to react
afterwards. For such an important moment to be hidden in a microscopic
panel with no reaction from the characters afterwards was a poor choice. I
hadn't even noticed that the body was gone until I read an interview with
Brubaker that mentioned it.

- Nathan P. Mahney -
http://www.thecomicnerd.com

- Nathan P. Mahney -
http://www.thecomicnerd.com
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:47:38 +1100, Nathan P. Mahney wrote:

> Yes, but for that ending to be effective, the X-Men need to react
> afterwards. For such an important moment to be hidden in a microscopic
> panel with no reaction from the characters afterwards was a poor choice.
> I hadn't even noticed that the body was gone until I read an interview
> with Brubaker that mentioned it.

Me neither. Makes me wonder if Xavier's body was there on the floor at
all, or whether he just made people think it was.
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

"J. Mayer" wrote in


> I finally read the final issues of the Messiah Complex crossover. On
> the last page, everyone is standing around staring at Prof. X's body,
> then the very last panel his body is gone. Huh? Then in Uncanny X-Men
> 495, Scott mentions that they don't know if Prof. X is really dead or
> not? Huh? A bad ending to a good and interesting storyline... other
> than bad art esp in chapter 12... I don't have a problem with the
> decision to kill Prof X. It's just how that last panel was handled and
> then for his death to be questioned. It just didn't make sense.

I agree. It seems pretty clear he's dead and then...he's just gone.
That was apparently the equivalent to a set-up for X-Men: Legacy.
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

mimf wrote in


> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:47:38 +1100, Nathan P. Mahney wrote:
>
>> Yes, but for that ending to be effective, the X-Men need to react
>> afterwards. For such an important moment to be hidden in a
>> microscopic panel with no reaction from the characters afterwards was
>> a poor choice. I hadn't even noticed that the body was gone until I
>> read an interview with Brubaker that mentioned it.
>
> Me neither. Makes me wonder if Xavier's body was there on the floor at
> all, or whether he just made people think it was.

I just figured it was a misprint in the last panel. Xavier gone, no
one reacting, and the camera pulled even further back as if the scene
doesn't matter anyway.

It isn't just Xavier that is gone, either. All the blood is gone.
Makes it much more questionable as to whether it was ever there.
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

Billy Bissette wrote:
> mimf wrote in
>
>
>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:47:38 +1100, Nathan P. Mahney wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, but for that ending to be effective, the X-Men need to react
>>> afterwards. For such an important moment to be hidden in a
>>> microscopic panel with no reaction from the characters afterwards was
>>> a poor choice. I hadn't even noticed that the body was gone until I
>>> read an interview with Brubaker that mentioned it.
>> Me neither. Makes me wonder if Xavier's body was there on the floor at
>> all, or whether he just made people think it was.
>
> I just figured it was a misprint in the last panel. Xavier gone, no
> one reacting, and the camera pulled even further back as if the scene
> doesn't matter anyway.
>
> It isn't just Xavier that is gone, either. All the blood is gone.
> Makes it much more questionable as to whether it was ever there.

Maybe Wanda caught the Wundagore flu and sneezed?
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

edeloso wrote in
@netnews.upenn.edu:

> Billy Bissette wrote:
>> mimf wrote in
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:47:38 +1100, Nathan P. Mahney wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, but for that ending to be effective, the X-Men need to react
>>>> afterwards. For such an important moment to be hidden in a
>>>> microscopic panel with no reaction from the characters afterwards
was
>>>> a poor choice. I hadn't even noticed that the body was gone until I
>>>> read an interview with Brubaker that mentioned it.
>>> Me neither. Makes me wonder if Xavier's body was there on the floor
at
>>> all, or whether he just made people think it was.
>>
>> I just figured it was a misprint in the last panel. Xavier gone,
no
>> one reacting, and the camera pulled even further back as if the scene
>> doesn't matter anyway.
>>
>> It isn't just Xavier that is gone, either. All the blood is gone.
>> Makes it much more questionable as to whether it was ever there.
>
> Maybe Wanda caught the Wundagore flu and sneezed?

I wondered if it was a set-up by Bishop. He's trying to stop
Cable, but Cable is already gone by the time Bishop fires. On the
other hand, Bishop probably isn't in the most rational condition,
not after apparently losing his right hand.


It is all something of a mess, anyway... I mean:

The X-Men disband with Xavier's death. Then in the next issue of
Uncanny, disbanding was only a lie told to Tony Stark, to get the
government off their backs. So why say it at Xavier's death?

Speaking of Tony... First it was said mutants were already
registered through O*N*E, before Civil War even started, and thus
not part of the whole Civil War issue as long as they chose to
stay out of it.. Then in Wolverine it was apparently claimed that
the O*N*E registration counted as registration, and they were under
Stark's orders. Now Uncanny goes back to the former idea, saying
that with O*N*E gone, they now fall back into a questionable status
and need to register. But wait... Regardless, they are all
registered with the government anyway, aren't they? The government
knows the identities of everyone at the mansion. The only
questionable part is whether Stark could give them orders? And
wait again, Stark just lets them go upon Scott's word that they've
disbanded? That sure doesn't fit with things like
Avengers Initiative, where they forcibly drafted people with powers.

Scott wants to keep the existance of X-Force from Emma. He thinks
Emma would think badly of a black ops group? But more than that,
again in Uncanny he doesn't seem to really mind Emma going on field
trips in his brain. Yet he's trying to keep X-Force secret?
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

Nathan P. Mahney wrote:
> wrote:
>> J. Mayer wrote:
>>> The Black Guardian wrote:
>>>> J. Mayer wrote:
>>>>> I finally read the final issues of the Messiah Complex crossover.
>>>>> On the last page, everyone is standing around staring at Prof. X's
>>>>> body, then the very last panel his body is gone. Huh? Then in
>>>>> Uncanny X-Men 495, Scott mentions that they don't know if Prof. X
>>>>> is really dead or not? Huh? A bad ending to a good and interesting
>>>>> storyline...
>
>>>> Xavier is not dead.
>>>> Acolytes.
>>>> Tempo.
>>>> Stop time.
>>>> Xavier disappears.
>
>>>> Xavier's getting his own series.
>
>>> I know that thre will be a series regarding Xavier. My complaint
>>> centers around the poor writing in setting this up. Everyone is
>>> standing around looking at Xavier. Then Xavier disappears... with no
>>> reaction at all from the group.
>>
>> I think the sudden change meant that no one reacts in time. (Other
>> than Beast who sticks a hand out.)
>
> Yes, but for that ending to be effective, the X-Men need to react
> afterwards. For such an important moment to be hidden in a microscopic
> panel with no reaction from the characters afterwards was a poor
> choice. I hadn't even noticed that the body was gone until I read an
> interview with Brubaker that mentioned it.

I'd say it was pretty damn effective, considering that most people
have been discussing it around the Net since before the book
officially went on sale. It was meant to get people talking about what
happened to the body, and it sure as hell worked. Unfortunately, many
people guessed too quickly (and correctly) about what happened.
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

On Feb 18, 9:48 pm, "Nathan P. Mahney" wrote:
> "The Black Guardian" wrote in messagenews:56365ca2-756a-4728-bd3f-9cad9c2bed6e@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Nathan P. Mahney wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > >> J. Mayer wrote:
> > >>> The Black Guardian wrote:
> > >>>> J. Mayer wrote:
> > >>>>> I finally read the final issues of the Messiah Complex crossover.
> > >>>>> On the last page, everyone is standing around staring at Prof. X's
> > >>>>> body, then the very last panel his body is gone. Huh? Then in
> > >>>>> Uncanny X-Men 495, Scott mentions that they don't know if Prof. X
> > >>>>> is really dead or not? Huh? A bad ending to a good and interesting
> > >>>>> storyline...
>
> > >>>> Xavier is not dead.
> > >>>> Acolytes.
> > >>>> Tempo.
> > >>>> Stop time.
> > >>>> Xavier disappears.
>
> > >>>> Xavier's getting his own series.
>
> > >>> I know that thre will be a series regarding Xavier. My complaint
> > >>> centers around the poor writing in setting this up. Everyone is
> > >>> standing around looking at Xavier. Then Xavier disappears... with no
> > >>> reaction at all from the group.
>
> > >> I think the sudden change meant that no one reacts in time. (Other
> > >> than Beast who sticks a hand out.)
>
> > > Yes, but for that ending to be effective, the X-Men need to react
> > > afterwards. For such an important moment to be hidden in a microscopic
> > > panel with no reaction from the characters afterwards was a poor
> > > choice. I hadn't even noticed that the body was gone until I read an
> > > interview with Brubaker that mentioned it.
>
> > I'd say it was pretty damn effective, considering that most people
> > have been discussing it around the Net since before the book
> > officially went on sale. It was meant to get people talking about what
> > happened to the body, and it sure as hell worked. Unfortunately, many
> > people guessed too quickly (and correctly) about what happened.
>
> So, a scene in the comic was so effective that it had people talking about
> it before it was even printed? Assuming that's what your saying, that's
> preposterous. I don't hang out at comic message boards any more (mostly
> because I dislike the format - I'd love to read Comixfan regularly, but not
> the way it currently works), and to me the scene didn't work at all in the
> comic as printed - something that important should be specifically called
> out, not hidden away in a tiny panel with no reaction from the characters.
> Effective marketing from Marvel doesn't change this a bit.
>
> - Nathan P. Mahney -http://www.thecomicnerd.com

There are ways people can obtain comics after they are printed and
before they officially go on sale. Preview copies and subscriptions
being examples.
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

"The Black Guardian" wrote in message

> Nathan P. Mahney wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> J. Mayer wrote:
> >>> The Black Guardian wrote:
> >>>> J. Mayer wrote:
> >>>>> I finally read the final issues of the Messiah Complex crossover.
> >>>>> On the last page, everyone is standing around staring at Prof. X's
> >>>>> body, then the very last panel his body is gone. Huh? Then in
> >>>>> Uncanny X-Men 495, Scott mentions that they don't know if Prof. X
> >>>>> is really dead or not? Huh? A bad ending to a good and interesting
> >>>>> storyline...
> >
> >>>> Xavier is not dead.
> >>>> Acolytes.
> >>>> Tempo.
> >>>> Stop time.
> >>>> Xavier disappears.
> >
> >>>> Xavier's getting his own series.
> >
> >>> I know that thre will be a series regarding Xavier. My complaint
> >>> centers around the poor writing in setting this up. Everyone is
> >>> standing around looking at Xavier. Then Xavier disappears... with no
> >>> reaction at all from the group.
> >>
> >> I think the sudden change meant that no one reacts in time. (Other
> >> than Beast who sticks a hand out.)
> >
> > Yes, but for that ending to be effective, the X-Men need to react
> > afterwards. For such an important moment to be hidden in a microscopic
> > panel with no reaction from the characters afterwards was a poor
> > choice. I hadn't even noticed that the body was gone until I read an
> > interview with Brubaker that mentioned it.
>
> I'd say it was pretty damn effective, considering that most people
> have been discussing it around the Net since before the book
> officially went on sale. It was meant to get people talking about what
> happened to the body, and it sure as hell worked. Unfortunately, many
> people guessed too quickly (and correctly) about what happened.

So, a scene in the comic was so effective that it had people talking about
it before it was even printed? Assuming that's what your saying, that's
preposterous. I don't hang out at comic message boards any more (mostly
because I dislike the format - I'd love to read Comixfan regularly, but not
the way it currently works), and to me the scene didn't work at all in the
comic as printed - something that important should be specifically called
out, not hidden away in a tiny panel with no reaction from the characters.
Effective marketing from Marvel doesn't change this a bit.

- Nathan P. Mahney -
http://www.thecomicnerd.com
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers] 

wrote in message

> On Feb 18, 9:48 pm, "Nathan P. Mahney" wrote:
> > "The Black Guardian" wrote in
messagenews:56365ca2-756a-4728-bd3f-9cad9c2bed6e@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.co
m...
> >
> >
> >
> > > Nathan P. Mahney wrote:
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> J. Mayer wrote:
> > > >>> The Black Guardian wrote:
> > > >>>> J. Mayer wrote:
> > > >>>>> I finally read the final issues of the Messiah Complex
crossover.
> > > >>>>> On the last page, everyone is standing around staring at Prof.
X's
> > > >>>>> body, then the very last panel his body is gone. Huh? Then in
> > > >>>>> Uncanny X-Men 495, Scott mentions that they don't know if Prof.
X
> > > >>>>> is really dead or not? Huh? A bad ending to a good and
interesting
> > > >>>>> storyline...
> >
> > > >>>> Xavier is not dead.
> > > >>>> Acolytes.
> > > >>>> Tempo.
> > > >>>> Stop time.
> > > >>>> Xavier disappears.
> >
> > > >>>> Xavier's getting his own series.
> >
> > > >>> I know that thre will be a series regarding Xavier. My complaint
> > > >>> centers around the poor writing in setting this up. Everyone is
> > > >>> standing around looking at Xavier. Then Xavier disappears... with
no
> > > >>> reaction at all from the group.
> >
> > > >> I think the sudden change meant that no one reacts in time. (Other
> > > >> than Beast who sticks a hand out.)
> >
> > > > Yes, but for that ending to be effective, the X-Men need to react
> > > > afterwards. For such an important moment to be hidden in a
microscopic
> > > > panel with no reaction from the characters afterwards was a poor
> > > > choice. I hadn't even noticed that the body was gone until I read an
> > > > interview with Brubaker that mentioned it.
> >
> > > I'd say it was pretty damn effective, considering that most people
> > > have been discussing it around the Net since before the book
> > > officially went on sale. It was meant to get people talking about what
> > > happened to the body, and it sure as hell worked. Unfortunately, many
> > > people guessed too quickly (and correctly) about what happened.
> >
> > So, a scene in the comic was so effective that it had people talking
about
> > it before it was even printed? Assuming that's what your saying, that's
> > preposterous. I don't hang out at comic message boards any more (mostly
> > because I dislike the format - I'd love to read Comixfan regularly, but
not
> > the way it currently works), and to me the scene didn't work at all in
the
> > comic as printed - something that important should be specifically
called
> > out, not hidden away in a tiny panel with no reaction from the
characters.
> > Effective marketing from Marvel doesn't change this a bit.
> >
> > - Nathan P. Mahney -http://www.thecomicnerd.com
>
> There are ways people can obtain comics after they are printed and
> before they officially go on sale. Preview copies and subscriptions
> being examples.

Which is what I get for not reading posts carefully enough before I go off
on a rant. Apologies all round, though I still think it was a bad way to
stage the scene.

- Nathan P. Mahney -
http://www.thecomicnerd.com
 >> Stay informed about: Messiah Complex ending [spoilers]