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rosybloom

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Since: Feb 05, 2006
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:47 pm
Post subject: Narnia Annoyances
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis (more info?)

1. Why do the Narnians need us to constantly pull their asses out of
the fire? Why can't they do it? Why kids? Why can't older people come
to Narnia? Why kids from our world in particular? Why doesn't Aslan
ever help them? Does Narnia exist just to test the character of a group
of children? Why is Aslan so interested in just these kids? How many
other earthlings have been to Narnia? Lewis never clearly set down just
what the relation was between that world and ours.

2. I find troubling the notion that these children lived full lives as
adults then were transformed back into children. Did they retain all
their adult memories in childish minds? Do they remember adult sexual
experiences?

3. Anyone find it disturbing that while the talking animals are
untouchable, nobody sees anything wrong in eating the dumb ones? All
animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others.

4. Narnia was destroyed, how did the underground dwellers and sea
people get out?

5. Aslan is constantly driving the children to self-flagellation over
such minor wrongs. Digory purely by accident lets the witch in. Lucy
follows her brothers and sister instead of following Aslan into the
woods alone, and later spys on her friends. Jill shows off how brave
she is, then fails to recognize the city.

They are all judged *so* harshly for such *minor* sins. It sits very
badly when you realize they are *school children* plucked from their
own universe to risk their lives on adventures fighting the forces of
evil. Realistically, that they did anything more than sob, collapse,
and die shows incredible strength of character. It made me hate Aslan.

This is from The Natural History of Make-Believe by John Goldthwaite.

"The first adventure had begun in the spirit of a school holiday, but
this was a deception: these children are about to be examined more
rigorously than ever they were at school; one of them Lewis is
literally going to damn to hell. Unlike a Pinocchio, moreover, they
will not even enjoy the freedom and dignity of their own thoughts along
the way. The oft-scolded Pinocchio was only being asked to look to his
studies, after all; he was otherwise free to think and run loose as he
chose. In Christian terms he had the full free will necessary to make
his actions meaningful. Lewis's children are puppets in a way that
Pinocchio was not. It is possible, of course, that they are lacking
free will by default; for where Collodi could quote straight from a
child's brain and heart, Lewis seems not to have had a clue. His
children are stock characters from series books, and they think in the
clichés of series books. Occasionally they sound at least as
convincing as Nesbit's children, but usually not, for he lacked
Nesbit's ear for child-talk. The Pevensies and their friends speak the
rhetoric of adventure and school stories. As a consequence, Lewis could
ignore them as real persons and deal with them punitively at his
leisure. The voice of the hall proctor stalks these pages, monitoring
the children's every move and thought. Lewis judges their already
predestined decisions, counts the demerits of their tears, and sets
them to monitoring one another for lapses in right behavior."

6. Everyone in Heaven seems to forget about Susan whose entire family
had been incinerated. With no money and no family, Susan's only
recourse is the brothel, where she becomes hooked on drugs, is beaten
by her Johns, and dies from a botched abortion.

Well, that's what you get for wearing lipstick.

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rosybloom

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Since: Feb 05, 2006
Posts: 4



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:41 pm
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Thanks for for replying. I think they're good books in a lot of ways.

>>Why doesn't Aslan
>>ever help them?

>>You mean, why doesn't he turn up in person and do something useful,
>>like, for instance, breathing life into those the Witch has turned to stone?

I mean like, why can't Aslan save Caspian's son from the witch? Seems
like a pretty simple thing.

>>How many
>>other earthlings have been to Narnia?

>>Lots, evidently, since all of the human population of Narnia is of
>>Earthly origin.

Why do they read books like, "Is Man a Myth?" and act like the children
are the only daughters of Eve and sons of Adam in the place? Is it just
because Kirke bumbled into Narnia that the worlds are interrelated? But
Jill and Eustace aren't related to the Pensivies, so them being there
is pretty random.

I just have a bunch of questions like, is Narnia special, or just
another world? When they go to Paraside, they don't mention the other
worlds. Did this universe-switching thing happen before or was Andrew
the first one among all the worlds to figure it out? Do we have any
special relation to any other world or just Narnia? Does Narnia have a
special relation to any other world or just ours? Is this universe
interdependence thing common among the other worlds?

>>Where does this nonsense come from? Susan has certainly suffered a
>>traumatic bereavement, but she is a well-educated young woman who has
>>probably just inherited a reasonable amount of property. There is no
>>cause to think that she would be in any immediate financial difficulty.

It says Professor Kirke had to sell his house because of financial
difficulties. I'm also assuming that having to identify the mangled
corpses of her parents and siblings would have caused some
psychological setbacks. This was just too cruel for me.

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tsbrueni

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Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 713



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:11 am
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rosybloom.DeleteThis@verizon.net wrote:

> Thanks for for replying. I think they're good books in a lot of ways.
>
> >>Why doesn't Aslan
> >>ever help them?
>
> >>You mean, why doesn't he turn up in person and do something useful,
> >>like, for instance, breathing life into those the Witch has turned to stone?
>
> I mean like, why can't Aslan save Caspian's son from the witch? Seems
> like a pretty simple thing.

He did. He sent Jill and Eustace to save him!

> >>How many
> >>other earthlings have been to Narnia?
>
> >>Lots, evidently, since all of the human population of Narnia is of
> >>Earthly origin.
>
> Why do they read books like, "Is Man a Myth?" and act like the children
> are the only daughters of Eve and sons of Adam in the place? Is it just
> because Kirke bumbled into Narnia that the worlds are interrelated? But
> Jill and Eustace aren't related to the Pensivies, so them being there
> is pretty random.

Eustace is their cousin.

> I just have a bunch of questions like, is Narnia special, or just
> another world? When they go to Paraside, they don't mention the other
> worlds. Did this universe-switching thing happen before or was Andrew
> the first one among all the worlds to figure it out? Do we have any
> special relation to any other world or just Narnia? Does Narnia have a
> special relation to any other world or just ours? Is this universe
> interdependence thing common among the other worlds?
>
> >>Where does this nonsense come from? Susan has certainly suffered a
> >>traumatic bereavement, but she is a well-educated young woman who has
> >>probably just inherited a reasonable amount of property. There is no
> >>cause to think that she would be in any immediate financial difficulty.
>
> It says Professor Kirke had to sell his house because of financial
> difficulties. I'm also assuming that having to identify the mangled
> corpses of her parents and siblings would have caused some
> psychological setbacks. This was just too cruel for me.

Kirke's problems wouldn't affect the wealth of the Pevinese parents, would they?
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user302

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Since: Oct 11, 2003
Posts: 77



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:01 pm
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In article <1139784431.223423.316510 DeleteThis @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
rosybloom DeleteThis @verizon.net wrote:

> 1. Why do the Narnians need us to constantly pull their asses out of
> the fire? Why can't they do it?

Most of the time they probably can. We only get to hear about the times
they need some help.

>Why kids? Why can't older people come
> to Narnia?

Perhaps because older people would be too set in their Earthly ways of
thinking? Like Eustace before he became a dragon, only more so.

>Why kids from our world in particular?

Why not? Perhaps in the Narnia 'multiverse' there is a world that
stands in the same relation to us as we do to Narnia. Perhaps there are
many other such pairs of worlds. We just wouldn't know about them.

>Why doesn't Aslan
> ever help them?

You mean, why doesn't he turn up in person and do something useful,
like, for instance, breathing life into those the Witch has turned to
stone?

>Does Narnia exist just to test the character of a group
> of children? Why is Aslan so interested in just these kids?

Aslan is interested in everybody, of course. The stories just happen to
be about 'these kids'.

>How many
> other earthlings have been to Narnia?

Lots, evidently, since all of the human population of Narnia is of
Earthly origin.

>Lewis never clearly set down just
> what the relation was between that world and ours.

TMN and TLB between them set down enough of it for the purposes of the
books.

> 2. I find troubling the notion that these children lived full lives as
> adults then were transformed back into children. Did they retain all
> their adult memories in childish minds? Do they remember adult sexual
> experiences?

Yes, this is awkward. Definitely a real continuity problem.

> > 3. Anyone find it disturbing that while the talking animals are
> untouchable, nobody sees anything wrong in eating the dumb ones?

No. The talking animals are not 'animals' so much as people with
strangely shaped bodies.

> 4. Narnia was destroyed, how did the underground dwellers and sea
> people get out?

What difference does it make whether they did or not? The world has just
ended; everybody is dead anyway.

> This is from The Natural History of Make-Believe by John Goldthwaite.
>
> "The first adventure had begun in the spirit of a school holiday, but
> this was a deception: these children are about to be examined more
> rigorously than ever they were at school; one of them Lewis is
> literally going to damn to hell.

At the end of TLB, seven Friends of Narnia are dead and in Heaven. The
eighth (former) Friend is alive and well on Earth. None are in Hell.
If someone wishes to attack Lewis in this fashion, actually reading the
books would be a good start.

> 6. Everyone in Heaven seems to forget about Susan whose entire family
> had been incinerated. With no money and no family, Susan's only
> recourse is the brothel, where she becomes hooked on drugs, is beaten
> by her Johns, and dies from a botched abortion.

Where does this nonsense come from? Susan has certainly suffered a
traumatic bereavement, but she is a well-educated young woman who has
probably just inherited a reasonable amount of property. There is no
cause to think that she would be in any immediate financial difficulty.

Best wishes,
Matthew

--
Those who assert that the mathematical sciences have nothing to say
about the good or the beautiful are mistaken. -- Aristotle
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atsarisborn

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Since: Feb 13, 2006
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:01 pm
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1. Aslan is interested in THESE kids because they're the ones who get
into Narnia somehow, two of them the day it was created. He's also
interested in Shasta and Aravis.

3. Four-legs good, two-legs bad.

6. No, Susan married rather well (corporate lawyer), inherited all the
family property (Professor Kirk's old house turned into a Council
Estate, brought in a pretty penny), and brought her own children up to
be very active in sports and things that distracted them from excessive
fantasy. She is currently M.P. for Lower Barsetshire (Tory).

ALL your questions can be answered by the Great Unspoken Law of Narnia:
Thou shalt not read these books after puberty or the age of 16
(whichever comes first).

Tsar Parmathule
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tsbrueni

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Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 713



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:39 pm
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atsarisborn.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com wrote:

> 1. Aslan is interested in THESE kids because they're the ones who get
> into Narnia somehow, two of them the day it was created. He's also
> interested in Shasta and Aravis.
>
> 3. Four-legs good, two-legs bad.
>
> 6. No, Susan married rather well (corporate lawyer), inherited all the
> family property (Professor Kirk's old house turned into a Council
> Estate, brought in a pretty penny), and brought her own children up to
> be very active in sports and things that distracted them from excessive
> fantasy. She is currently M.P. for Lower Barsetshire (Tory).

Is she a strong advocate of railway safety (having lost her entire family
in a railway accident)?
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tsbrueni

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Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 713



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:45 pm
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rosybloom RemoveThis @verizon.net wrote:

> 1. Why do the Narnians need us to constantly pull their asses out of
> the fire? Why can't they do it? Why kids? Why can't older people come
> to Narnia? Why kids from our world in particular? Why doesn't Aslan
> ever help them? Does Narnia exist just to test the character of a group
> of children? Why is Aslan so interested in just these kids? How many
> other earthlings have been to Narnia? Lewis never clearly set down just
> what the relation was between that world and ours.
>
> 2. I find troubling the notion that these children lived full lives as
> adults then were transformed back into children. Did they retain all
> their adult memories in childish minds? Do they remember adult sexual
> experiences?
>
> 3. Anyone find it disturbing that while the talking animals are
> untouchable, nobody sees anything wrong in eating the dumb ones? All
> animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others.
>
> 4. Narnia was destroyed, how did the underground dwellers and sea
> people get out?
>
> 5. Aslan is constantly driving the children to self-flagellation over
> such minor wrongs. Digory purely by accident lets the witch in. Lucy
> follows her brothers and sister instead of following Aslan into the
> woods alone, and later spys on her friends. Jill shows off how brave
> she is, then fails to recognize the city.
>
> They are all judged *so* harshly for such *minor* sins. It sits very
> badly when you realize they are *school children* plucked from their
> own universe to risk their lives on adventures fighting the forces of
> evil. Realistically, that they did anything more than sob, collapse,
> and die shows incredible strength of character. It made me hate Aslan.
>
> This is from The Natural History of Make-Believe by John Goldthwaite.
>
> "The first adventure had begun in the spirit of a school holiday, but
> this was a deception: these children are about to be examined more
> rigorously than ever they were at school; one of them Lewis is
> literally going to damn to hell. Unlike a Pinocchio, moreover, they
> will not even enjoy the freedom and dignity of their own thoughts along
> the way. The oft-scolded Pinocchio was only being asked to look to his
> studies, after all; he was otherwise free to think and run loose as he
> chose. In Christian terms he had the full free will necessary to make
> his actions meaningful. Lewis's children are puppets in a way that
> Pinocchio was not. It is possible, of course, that they are lacking
> free will by default; for where Collodi could quote straight from a
> child's brain and heart, Lewis seems not to have had a clue. His
> children are stock characters from series books, and they think in the
> clichés of series books. Occasionally they sound at least as
> convincing as Nesbit's children, but usually not, for he lacked
> Nesbit's ear for child-talk. The Pevensies and their friends speak the
> rhetoric of adventure and school stories. As a consequence, Lewis could
> ignore them as real persons and deal with them punitively at his
> leisure. The voice of the hall proctor stalks these pages, monitoring
> the children's every move and thought. Lewis judges their already
> predestined decisions, counts the demerits of their tears, and sets
> them to monitoring one another for lapses in right behavior."
>
> 6. Everyone in Heaven seems to forget about Susan whose entire family
> had been incinerated. With no money and no family, Susan's only
> recourse is the brothel, where she becomes hooked on drugs, is beaten
> by her Johns, and dies from a botched abortion.

7: The 4 children liberated young dwarfs and young satyrs from being sent
to school. This would result in a generation of ignorant dwarfs and
satyrs! This may explain why they weren't able to resist the Telmarine
invasion after the 4 kids left.
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Bree

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Since: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 44



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:40 pm
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On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:01:03 +1300, Matthew Collett
<m.collett.RemoveThis@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:

>In article <1139784431.223423.316510.RemoveThis@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> rosybloom.RemoveThis@verizon.net wrote:
/snip/

>> 2. I find troubling the notion that these children lived full lives as
>> adults then were transformed back into children. Did they retain all
>> their adult memories in childish minds? Do they remember adult sexual
>> experiences?
>
>Yes, this is awkward. Definitely a real continuity problem.


On the larger question, it does fit with a major point made in TLB: that
the people don't seem to have any particular age.

As for forgetting, well, they did forget both ways; in their adult Narnia
life their earth life seemed like a dream. so it's reasonable they would
forget that part when they returned.

As for sexual experiences, I suppose they might have married during that
time and it not be mentioned.


Bree
--
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SS13

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Since: Feb 20, 2006
Posts: 20



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:58 pm
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Well, That's interesting questions...

//
1. Why do the Narnians need us to constantly pull their asses out of
the fire? Why can't they do it? Why kids? Why can't older people come
to Narnia? Why kids from our world in particular? Why doesn't Aslan
ever help them? Does Narnia exist just to test the character of a group
of children? Why is Aslan so interested in just these kids? How many
other earthlings have been to Narnia? Lewis never clearly set down just
what the relation was between that world and ours.
//
They are only called when Narnia is in danger. But really, it seem that
even Lewis knew: People are more powwerful than beasts, even talking
(none of them is actually bright)
as for kids, they are more easy with talking animals, and grown-ups
simply wouldn't BELIEVE what they see (Susan).

/////
>Why doesn't Aslan
>ever help them? Does Narnia exist just to test the character of a group
>of children? Why is Aslan so interested in just these kids?
They found the wardrobe. So they go t to learn God in Narnia...


>2. I find troubling the notion that these children lived full lives as
>adults then were transformed back into children. Did they retain all
>their adult memories in childish minds? Do they remember adult sexual
>experiences?

Lewis never adored "adult sexual experiences". That's why his Last book
completely ignores their age.

>3. Anyone find it disturbing that while the talking animals are
>untouchable, nobody sees anything wrong in eating the dumb ones? All
>animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others.
#
Centient being are holy. Non-centient arent. This is the same in, say
Star Trek towards robots.
>4. Narnia was destroyed, how did the underground dwellers and sea
>people get out?
Only Narnia. Calormenes live.

>5. Aslan is constantly driving the children to self-flagellation over
>such minor wrongs. Digory purely by accident lets the witch in. Lucy
>follows her brothers and sister instead of following Aslan into the
>woods alone, and later spys on her friends. Jill shows off how brave
>she is, then fails to recognize the city.

this acoords to Protestant religion: ALL sins, regardless how small,
lead to Hell when not redeemed. Smaller sins just need less redemption,
while some are unredeemable.

>They are all judged *so* harshly for such *minor* sins. It sits very
>badly when you realize they are *school children* plucked from their
>own universe to risk their lives on adventures fighting the forces of
>evil. Realistically, that they did anything more than sob, collapse,
>and die shows incredible strength of character. It made me hate Aslan.

It was a war. Read "Tomorrow, when the war began", for example. There
minor soins actually cost two childer their life! Again Lewis ideology:
you never know when the test comes, be ready!
//
This is from The Natural History of Make-Believe by John Goldthwaite.

"The first adventure had begun in the spirit of a school holiday, but
this was a deception: these children are about to be examined more
rigorously than ever they were at school; one of them Lewis is
literally going to damn to hell. Unlike a Pinocchio, moreover, they
will not even enjoy the freedom and dignity of their own thoughts along
the way. The oft-scolded Pinocchio was only being asked to look to his
studies, after all; he was otherwise free to think and run loose as he
chose. In Christian terms he had the full free will necessary to make
his actions meaningful. Lewis's children are puppets in a way that
Pinocchio was not. It is possible, of course, that they are lacking
free will by default; for where Collodi could quote straight from a
child's brain and heart, Lewis seems not to have had a clue. His
children are stock characters from series books, and they think in the
clichés of series books. Occasionally they sound at least as
convincing as Nesbit's children, but usually not, for he lacked
Nesbit's ear for child-talk. The Pevensies and their friends speak the
rhetoric of adventure and school stories. As a consequence, Lewis could
ignore them as real persons and deal with them punitively at his
leisure. The voice of the hall proctor stalks these pages, monitoring
the children's every move and thought. Lewis judges their already
predestined decisions, counts the demerits of their tears, and sets
them to monitoring one another for lapses in right behavior."

//
Great. Add to that the word of Philipp Pullman from "The Darkside of
Narnia":

"...an open-eyed reading of the books reveals some hair-raising stuff.
One of the most vile moments in the whole of children's literature, to
my mind, occurs at the end of The Last Battle, when Aslan reveals to
the children that "The term is over: the holidays have begun" because
"There was a real railway accident. Your father and mother and all of
you are - as you used to call it in the Shadowlands - dead." To solve
a narrative problem by killing one of your characters is something
many authors have done at one time or another. To slaughter the lot of
them, and then claim they're better off, is not honest storytelling:
it's propaganda in the service of a life-hating ideology. But that's
par for the course. Death is better than life; boys are better than
girls; light-coloured people are better than dark-coloured people; and
so on. There is no shortage of such nauseating drivel in Narnia, if
you can face it.

There is the loathsome glee with which the children from the
co-educational school are routed, in The Silver Chair: "with the
strength of Aslan in them, Jill plied her crop on the girls and Caspian
and Eustace plied the flats of their swords so well that in two minutes
all the bullies were running away like mad, crying out, 'Murder!
Fascists! Lions! It isn't fair.' And then the Head [who was, by the
way, a woman] came running out to see what was happening." There is the
colossal impertinence, to put it mildly, of hijacking the emotions that
are evoked by the story of the Crucifixion and Resurrection in order to
boost the reader's concern about Aslan in The Lion, The Witch And The
Wardrobe. ""
See also below.




>6. Everyone in Heaven seems to forget about Susan whose entire family
>had been incinerated. With no money and no family, Susan's only
>recourse is the brothel, where she becomes hooked on drugs, is beaten
>by her Johns, and dies from a botched abortion.

>Well, that's what you get for wearing lipstick.

Again, Pullmann:
"...And in The Last Battle, notoriously, there's the turning away of
Susan from the Stable (which stands for salvation) because "She's
interested in nothing nowadays except nylons and lipstick and
invitations. She always was a jolly sight too keen on being grown-up."
In other words, Susan, like Cinderella, is undergoing a transition from
one phase of her life to another. Lewis didn't approve of that. He
didn't like women in general, or sexuality at all, at least at the
stage in his life when he wrote the Narnia books. He was frightened and
appalled at the notion of wanting to grow up. Susan, who did want to
grow up, and who might have been the most interesting character in the
whole cycle if she'd been allowed to, is a Cinderella in a story where
the Ugly Sisters win. "

And the following comment I found:
"In the end, It wasn't Susan who betrayed Narnia. It was Lewis
hiomself, who allowed the IDEOLOGIST to win over HUMANIST and AUTHOR,
Death over Life, Devotion over human passions, and dogma over humanity.
In fact, he betrayed his own words:
<<He who speaks Tash(devil) and does good belongs to me, and he who
speaks Aslanm and does bad belongs to Tash.>>"


It would be actually a good idea to write a fanfic where Susan Pevensie
is a mother of Petunia and Lily Evans (from "Harry Potter"), encourages
Lily to go to Hogwarts and never back up from a dream, and not be
afraid of death, as there are thing worse than that - like having your
entirely family killed... Better would be , Rowling would write that
in HP7.

Neil Gaimann had actually written a short story "The problem of Susan",
published in the book "Flights: Extreme Visions of fantasy".
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nystulc2

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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:17 am
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rosybloom.RemoveThis@verizon.net wrote:
> 4. Narnia was destroyed, how did the underground dwellers and sea
> dwellers get out.

This scene is obviously phantasmagoric. We are observing a sort-of
vision. First, the heros are given a speeded-up view of time,
essentially fast-forewarding them through the remainder of world
history (possibly consisting of thousands of years) to the end of the
world. Then, after all people of the world are dead, Aslan summons
home the spirits of the dead, who pass through the "stable door."

The stable door is one of the more metaphorical elements of the Narnia
series, representing death. But the only people, still living in a
literal sense, who pass through it are the dwarfs, Shift, Emmeth,
Rillian, Eustace, Jill and the evil Tarkaan.
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mike_in_the_west

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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:56 pm
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>Only Narnia. Calormenes live.

Surely this is incorrect? It seems to me the whole Narnian universe was
destroyed - just like Charn.


>[Susan] might have been the most interesting character in the whole cycle if she'd been allowed to[.]

Agreed.
For character development in the actual stories, I rank the following
as "interesting":
1. Eustace
2. Caspian
3. Emeth (partly)
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user299

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Since: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 50



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:12 pm
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Bree <bree RemoveThis @bree.com> observed
>On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:01:03 +1300, Matthew Collett
><m.collett RemoveThis @auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>>In article <1139784431.223423.316510 RemoveThis @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> rosybloom RemoveThis @verizon.net wrote:
>/snip/
>
>>> 2. I find troubling the notion that these children lived full lives as
>>> adults then were transformed back into children. Did they retain all
>>> their adult memories in childish minds? Do they remember adult sexual
>>> experiences?
>>
>>Yes, this is awkward. Definitely a real continuity problem.
>
>
>On the larger question, it does fit with a major point made in TLB: that
>the people don't seem to have any particular age.
>
>As for forgetting, well, they did forget both ways; in their adult Narnia
>life their earth life seemed like a dream. so it's reasonable they would
>forget that part when they returned.

Yes.

>As for sexual experiences, I suppose they might have married during that
>time and it not be mentioned.

Just seen this! Can I remind you that it's fiction? Wink

.... as well as being a children's story, for Aslan's sake!

Fiction doesn't have to address every detail in life. It doesn't mention
where they went to the bathroom, either!!

Mike

<feeling better now!>

[The reply-to address is valid for 30 days from this posting]
--
Michael J Davis
<><
Some newsgroup contributors appear to have confused
the meaning of "discussion" with "digression".
<><
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Bree

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Since: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 44



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:23 pm
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On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:12:43 +0000, Michael J Davis
<?.?@trustsof.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Bree <bree RemoveThis @bree.com> observed
>>On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:01:03 +1300, Matthew Collett
>><m.collett RemoveThis @auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <1139784431.223423.316510 RemoveThis @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>>> rosybloom RemoveThis @verizon.net wrote:
>>/snip/
>>
>>>> 2. I find troubling the notion that these children lived full lives as
>>>> adults then were transformed back into children. Did they retain all
>>>> their adult memories in childish minds? Do they remember adult sexual
>>>> experiences?

/snip/

>>As for sexual experiences, I suppose they might have married during that
>>time and it not be mentioned.

//snip/

>Fiction doesn't have to address every detail in life. It doesn't mention
>where they went to the bathroom, either!!


Well, yes, that was my point -- one, anyway: LWW didn't mention
everything that happened to them while grown up in Narnia.

In HORSE AND HIS BOY, Susan is of marriageable age and they're visiting
someone who has been courting her (it doesn't work out Smile. But that
suggests that she and others could have married during those years.

Of course my other point was that according to Lewis' standards they
shouldn't HAVE any sexual experiences unless they married, and some people
went their whole lives without any.


Bree
--
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user299

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Since: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 50



(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:02 am
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Bree <bree.TakeThisOut@bree.com> observed
>On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:12:43 +0000, Michael J Davis
><?.?@trustsof.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Bree <bree.TakeThisOut@bree.com> observed
>>>On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:01:03 +1300, Matthew Collett
>>><m.collett.TakeThisOut@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <1139784431.223423.316510.TakeThisOut@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>>>> rosybloom.TakeThisOut@verizon.net wrote:
>>>/snip/
>>>
>>>>> 2. I find troubling the notion that these children lived full lives as
>>>>> adults then were transformed back into children. Did they retain all
>>>>> their adult memories in childish minds? Do they remember adult sexual
>>>>> experiences?
>
>/snip/
>
>>>As for sexual experiences, I suppose they might have married during that
>>>time and it not be mentioned.
>
>//snip/
>
>>Fiction doesn't have to address every detail in life. It doesn't mention
>>where they went to the bathroom, either!!
>
>
>Well, yes, that was my point -- one, anyway: LWW didn't mention
>everything that happened to them while grown up in Narnia.
>
>In HORSE AND HIS BOY, Susan is of marriageable age and they're visiting
>someone who has been courting her (it doesn't work out Smile. But that
>suggests that she and others could have married during those years.
>
>Of course my other point was that according to Lewis' standards they
>shouldn't HAVE any sexual experiences unless they married, and some people
>went their whole lives without any.

And, since the books were written for children - the romantic element is
suitably restricted. Were she to have been married in Narnia - then
there would be questions to ask!! Wink

Mike

--
Michael J Davis

<>{
"The very man who has argued you down,
will sometimes be found, years later,
to have been influenced by what you said." CSLewis
<>{
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SS13

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Since: Feb 20, 2006
Posts: 20



(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:47 am
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Correction - Eustace and Jill are dead
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