Nation

"Daibhid Ceanaideach" ...
> "Raymond Daley" :
>> "Alec Cawley" ...
>
>>> In the jargon, children's books would mean books aimed as sub-11
>>> (primary rather than secondary schooling), quite possibly down to 5.
>>> While they are aimed below adult, Terry's Young Adult books would
>>> probably not be accessible to those significantly below secondary
>>> school age.
>>
>> I guess I must be a bit old fashioned then. You go from child to
>> adult. Didn't Rick Mayall or Ben Elton invent the term "Young Adult"
>> in the 1980's? Check The Young Ones episode "Demolition" where Rik is
>> watching "Nozin' Around", the term applies to people aged 16-18.
>> Or it did then anyway.
>
> The Wikipedia page for "young adult" is a disambig page, distinguishing
> between "young adult (psychology)" which is 19-40[1] and "young adult
> fiction" which is aimed at 12-18. Apparently these contradictory uses of
> the term have both been around since the 1950s.
>
> Outside the world of publishing, the term for what publishers call a
> "young adult" is, of course, "adolescent". Or "teenager"[3].
>
> Anyway, speaking as a thirty something, I'm more likely to read a
> "children's novel" (which is probably going to be funny, fast-paced, and
> quite likely involve the fantastic) than a "YA novel" (which is probably
> going to be about a kid on a sink estate whose mum dies). I consider the
> Tiffany books "children's novels". The Johnny books edge towards YA
> territory, but thankfully are nowhere near depressing enough to win a
> major award for teenage fiction.
>
> (Yes, I'm aware this is a huge, sweeping and probably unfair
> generalisation. That's what people get for labelling things in the first
> place .)
>
> [1] Yippee, I'm young for another eight years!
>
> [2]What I think of as the "Puffin Plus" agegroup, although I'm not sure
> the Puffin Plus imprint exists any more.
>
> [3]Come to think of it, what's wrong with the term "teen fiction"?
>

I am 50, wife is 49, kids are 16 and 18 and we all thoroughly enjoyed the
Tiff books, and just finished listening to the first 2 on audio CD on long
car rides lately. I believe totally that these books are ageless.
Tomes
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Wonder wrote:
> Hmmm sounds like a remake of Passport to Pimlico.

It's not an uncommon core idea, fictional or otherwise. I wouldn't
profess to mark any particular incident as the inspiration before even
reading the book, but the reference that struck me was the... 80s..?
sitcom-esque programme where some residents of a peninsula[1] discovered
that (maybe) as it was an island when the UK was defined, they were on
non-UK territory[2] and end up in a (admittedly) similar sort of
situation to P2P with the whole relationship with their 'bigger neighbour'.


Or, on the other hand the whole Micronation concept as fairly recently
espoused by [King] Danny Wallace's "Kingdom of Lovely".


On the /other/ other hand, it could be have been a concept triggered by
the likes of Surtsey (or, indeed, one further step away, a new style of
Leshp) or some not so new/transient territory with a marked
disinterest.dispute switch in its fortunes, like Perejil.


But _wherever_ the idea arose from, I'm willing to bet that any
'inspired by' component is going to be a small part of the whole, if any
measurable amount. I look forward in expectation to carefully crafted
prose, perhaps some turning-upon-the-head of expectations, and some
interesting insights that reach beyond the mere concept of "It's a funny
old world".


[1] I have in mind it was supposed to be off the coast of Suffolk, but
only from my probably completely incorrect memories about the manner of
the "local yokel" pragmatic attitudes involved.

[2] I'm sure that the various maritime n-mile limits and claims would
have made such a situation impossible, but look! Up there! My
disbelief is being suspended!
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On 05 Feb 2008, Len Oil <lenoil.RemoveThis@lenoil.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Wonder wrote:
>> Hmmm sounds like a remake of Passport to Pimlico.
>
> It's not an uncommon core idea, fictional or otherwise. I wouldn't
> profess to mark any particular incident as the inspiration before even
> reading the book,

I remember the days when Pterry was *surprised* by people claiming he was
ripping off someone else's idea months before the book was even
published. These days it appears par for the course.

Also, I don't think it's that similar. The gag in P2P is about an
inhabited district of a big city suddenly turning out to belong to
another country ("Blimey! I'm a foreigner!") "Nation" is about an
unoccupied piece of land[1] being claimed as a sovereign state. There's
certainly room for some similar jokes, and even direct references, but
there's also a fundemental difference.

[1]Save the person making the claim, obviously. For some reason I've got
the idea it's a desert island, but ICBW.

--
Dave
"There is no Neils the Bouncing Cat! He's gone!
Now there is only... P-Cat, the Penitent Puss!"
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On Wed, 30 Shvat 5768 04:45 Daibhid Ceanaideach translated the ancient
runes thusly:

> On 05 Feb 2008, Len Oil <lenoil.TakeThisOut@lenoil.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Wonder wrote:
>>> Hmmm sounds like a remake of Passport to Pimlico.
>>
>> It's not an uncommon core idea, fictional or otherwise. I wouldn't
>> profess to mark any particular incident as the inspiration before
>> even reading the book,
>
> I remember the days when Pterry was *surprised* by people claiming
> he was ripping off someone else's idea months before the book was
> even published. These days it appears par for the course.
>
> Also, I don't think it's that similar. The gag in P2P is about an
> inhabited district of a big city suddenly turning out to belong to
> another country ("Blimey! I'm a foreigner!") "Nation" is about an
> unoccupied piece of land[1] being claimed as a sovereign state.
> There's certainly room for some similar jokes, and even direct
> references, but there's also a fundemental difference.
>
> [1]Save the person making the claim, obviously. For some reason I've
> [got
> the idea it's a desert island, but ICBW.
>
And then again, since PTerry has visited Australia one or three
times, he *could* have derived some inspiration from the Hutt River
Principality, that seceded from Australia back in 1970.

http://www.principality-hutt-river.com/

Kate
--
--
"How many of them can we make die?"
 --- March of Cambreadth

http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
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Kate <vk4xyl2 RemoveThis @nospam.optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> And then again, since PTerry has visited Australia one or three
> times, he *could* have derived some inspiration from the Hutt River
> Principality, that seceded from Australia back in 1970.
>
> http://www.principality-hutt-river.com/

Or (possibly more likely) Sealand. Are those nutcases still going?

Richard
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Richard Bos wrote:

> Kate <vk4xyl2 RemoveThis @nospam.optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> And then again, since PTerry has visited Australia one or three
>> times, he *could* have derived some inspiration from the Hutt River
>> Principality, that seceded from Australia back in 1970.
>>
>> http://www.principality-hutt-river.com/
>
> Or (possibly more likely) Sealand. Are those nutcases still going?

Indeed <http://www.sealandgov.org/>

--
Steveski
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In article <47a8d068.11228703.DeleteThis@news.xs4all.nl>,
Richard Bos <rlbos.DeleteThis@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Kate <vk4xyl2.DeleteThis@nospam.optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> And then again, since PTerry has visited Australia one or three
>> times, he *could* have derived some inspiration from the Hutt River
>> Principality, that seceded from Australia back in 1970.
>>
>> http://www.principality-hutt-river.com/
>
>Or (possibly more likely) Sealand. Are those nutcases still going?

And any raw idea like that is common property. There was one version
done about a bunch of sand in Florida that had spilled past the town
line into a calm bit of bay water and was officially new; the author
got some comedy out of it. But the basic idea is all over the place
in real life and in fiction. It doesn't belong to any one person.

What matters is how the author works it out. I eagerly await PTerry's
unique vision.

=Tamar
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Orjan Westin wrote:
> Raymond Daley wrote:
>> "Richard Eney" <dicconf DeleteThis @radix.net> wrote in message
>> news:13q84bt69ebl7da@corp.supernews.com...
>>> The word is that it is a non-Discworld YA book,
>> YA?
>>
>> Never assume we know what you mean, please?
>
> Young Adult.
>
> Like the Johnny books, or the Tiffany books.
>
> Orjan
Seen the debate below, just thankful that in the UK Tiffany series and
TAMAHER are down as Stories of Discworld with the 'Main series' as
Discworld for adults of all ages. Thus there is not a young adult in
sight - thank goodness

--
Reader in Invisible Writings.. Something to Ponder upon!
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On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 10:26:51 -0500, John Duncan Yoyo
<john-duncan-yoyo DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:26:15 GMT, "Raymond Daley"
><raymond.daley DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Orjan Westin" <nospam DeleteThis @cunobaros.com> wrote in message
>>news:60kl6kF1r2rfhU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Young Adult.
>>> Like the Johnny books, or the Tiffany books.
>>
>>Funny, I thought they were childrens books. Especially the Johnny series.
>>I guess they did that so as to avoid labelling them as such?
>>
>Children don't want to be called children after nine or so.

....And Young Adults, don't want to be called at all.
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Dubh Ghall <puck.RemoveThis@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:

> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 10:26:51 -0500, John Duncan Yoyo
> <john-duncan-yoyo.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:26:15 GMT, "Raymond Daley"
> ><raymond.daley.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"Orjan Westin" <nospam.RemoveThis@cunobaros.com> wrote in message
> >>news:60kl6kF1r2rfhU1@mid.individual.net...
> >>> Young Adult.
> >>> Like the Johnny books, or the Tiffany books.
> >>
> >>Funny, I thought they were childrens books. Especially the Johnny series.
> >>I guess they did that so as to avoid labelling them as such?
> >>
> >Children don't want to be called children after nine or so.
>
> ...And Young Adults, don't want to be called at all.

Not even for dinner. "Can't I eat it in my room? I am on the phone
with Lori."
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On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 15:33:47 -0700, emma_anne.RemoveThis@mac.com (Emma Anne)
wrote:

>Dubh Ghall <puck.RemoveThis@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 10:26:51 -0500, John Duncan Yoyo
>> <john-duncan-yoyo.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:26:15 GMT, "Raymond Daley"
>> ><raymond.daley.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>"Orjan Westin" <nospam.RemoveThis@cunobaros.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:60kl6kF1r2rfhU1@mid.individual.net...
>> >>> Young Adult.
>> >>> Like the Johnny books, or the Tiffany books.
>> >>
>> >>Funny, I thought they were childrens books. Especially the Johnny series.
>> >>I guess they did that so as to avoid labelling them as such?
>> >>
>> >Children don't want to be called children after nine or so.
>>
>> ...And Young Adults, don't want to be called at all.
>
>Not even for dinner. "Can't I eat it in my room? I am on the phone
>with Lori."

Yep, that's them.
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In article <13qht1k1qjn2jd0 DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>, Richard Eney
<dicconf DeleteThis @radix.net> wrote:

> In article <47a8d068.11228703 DeleteThis @news.xs4all.nl>,
> Richard Bos <rlbos DeleteThis @xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >Kate <vk4xyl2 DeleteThis @nospam.optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >> And then again, since PTerry has visited Australia one or three
> >> times, he *could* have derived some inspiration from the Hutt River
> >> Principality, that seceded from Australia back in 1970.
> >>
> >> http://www.principality-hutt-river.com/
> >
> >Or (possibly more likely) Sealand. Are those nutcases still going?
>
> And any raw idea like that is common property. There was one version
> done about a bunch of sand in Florida that had spilled past the town
> line into a calm bit of bay water and was officially new; the author
> got some comedy out of it. But the basic idea is all over the place
> in real life and in fiction. It doesn't belong to any one person.
>
> What matters is how the author works it out. I eagerly await PTerry's
> unique vision.
>
> =Tamar
Ah yes -"Pioneer Go Home" by Richard Powell
Charming book
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