Thrint Question

norrin wrote:

> Default User wrote:

> > It's right out of the story, hence the quotes. The main character
> > can recognize "facts" inserted by the Grogs that way.
>
> Do you think it's possible to tell if you're awake or not?

Yes. Don't you?

> > > When somebody says they're certain, it usually means they're
> > > wrong.
> >
> > That sounds unlikely. I'm certain of the year and place of my birth.
> > I'm certain of the year I first graduated from college.
>
> You have physical evidence, a birth certificate and a diploma.

Irrelevant. Your contention was that things you are certain of are
likely to be incorrect. I'm certain that I was in attendance in 1986
when the Blues rallied back from three down to beat Calgary in overtime
(the Monday Night Miracle). I have no physical proof, but I'm certain.

> > We're discussing Grogs. Grogs could certainly control to a certain
> > extent. The first contact with the main character in the story finds
> > himself under control initially. How effective the control would be
> > if the human really tried to resist wasn't clear. Thrints could
> > completely.

> Grogs have coercion but do they have redaction?

I don't believe that was mentioned. But, so what? If you have to keep
throwing new things in to try to disqualify what they do as
"telepathy", then I think at some point you just need to admit that you
were wrong.





Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
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Default User wrote:
> norrin wrote:
> > Default User wrote:
> > > It's right out of the story, hence the quotes. The main character
> > > can recognize "facts" inserted by the Grogs that way.
>
> > Do you think it's possible to tell if you're awake or not?
>
> Yes. Don't you?

It's hard to be certain of something like that. I'm awake, of course.

> > > > When somebody says they're certain, it usually means they're
> > > > wrong.
>
> > > That sounds unlikely. I'm certain of the year and place of my birth.
> > > I'm certain of the year I first graduated from college.
>
> > You have physical evidence, a birth certificate and a diploma.
>
> Irrelevant. Your contention was that things you are certain of are
> likely to be incorrect. I'm certain that I was in attendance in 1986
> when the Blues rallied back from three down to beat Calgary in overtime
> (the Monday Night Miracle). I have no physical proof, but I'm certain.

It's important to you, which is odd. You didn't have to struggle to
help the Blues win, you didn't do anything. The win didn't make the
world a better place. You probably didn't win anything, and yet,
you care.
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On Jan 18, 9:47 am, norrin <adweil....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Default User wrote:

> > Irrelevant. Your contention was that things you are certain of are
> > likely to be incorrect. I'm certain that I was in attendance in 1986
> > when the Blues rallied back from three down to beat Calgary in overtime
> > (the Monday Night Miracle). I have no physical proof, but I'm certain.
>
> It's important to you, which is odd. You didn't have to struggle to
> help the Blues win, you didn't do anything. The win didn't make the
> world a better place. You probably didn't win anything, and yet,
> you care.

You silly ol' human.
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norrin wrote:

> Default User wrote:
> > norrin wrote:
> > > Default User wrote:
> > > > It's right out of the story, hence the quotes. The main
> > > > character can recognize "facts" inserted by the Grogs that way.
> >
> > > Do you think it's possible to tell if you're awake or not?
> >
> > Yes. Don't you?
>
> It's hard to be certain of something like that. I'm awake, of course.

It may be hard for you. I rarely have trouble.

> > > You have physical evidence, a birth certificate and a diploma.
> >
> > Irrelevant. Your contention was that things you are certain of are
> > likely to be incorrect. I'm certain that I was in attendance in 1986
> > when the Blues rallied back from three down to beat Calgary in
> > overtime (the Monday Night Miracle). I have no physical proof, but
> > I'm certain.
>
> It's important to you, which is odd.

I don't know what's odd about it. After all, the event has a name, so a
lot of people remember it to this day.

> You didn't have to struggle to
> help the Blues win, you didn't do anything.

I cheered loudly. I'm sure my voice was that one that inspired Brian
Sutter to steal that puck with a minute to go and sweep it home to tie
the game, and later motivated Doug Wickenheiser to hammer the shot home
in overtime.

> The win didn't make the world a better place.

It made my world a better place, for a couple days.

> You probably didn't win anything, and yet,
> you care.

I didn't win anything tangible, but so what? I go to games for a
reason. It's magic moments like that that will live forever (my forever
anyway).




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
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Default User wrote:


> I cheered loudly. I'm sure my voice was that one that inspired Brian
> Sutter to steal that puck with a minute to go and sweep it home to tie
> the game, and later motivated Doug Wickenheiser to hammer the shot
> home in overtime.

Interestingly, in a thread which discussed certainty, I believe I
screwed that up. Paslawski tied the game, I think.





Brian
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Default User wrote:
> norrin wrote:
> > Default User wrote:
> > > norrin wrote:
> > > > Default User wrote:
> > > > > It's right out of the story, hence the quotes. The main
> > > > > character can recognize "facts" inserted by the Grogs that way.
>
> > > > Do you think it's possible to tell if you're awake or not?
>
> > > Yes. Don't you?
>
> > It's hard to be certain of something like that. I'm awake, of course.
>
> It may be hard for you. I rarely have trouble.

You're awake, but you're dreaming.

> > > > You have physical evidence, a birth certificate and a diploma.
>
> > > Irrelevant. Your contention was that things you are certain of are
> > > likely to be incorrect. I'm certain that I was in attendance in 1986
> > > when the Blues rallied back from three down to beat Calgary in
> > > overtime (the Monday Night Miracle). I have no physical proof, but
> > > I'm certain.
>
> > It's important to you, which is odd.
>
> I don't know what's odd about it. After all, the event has a name, so a
> lot of people remember it to this day.

A lot of people remember DB Cooper. He has a name given by
journalists who used an alias referring to a person, but got it wrong
and added a middle initial.

> > You didn't have to struggle to
> > help the Blues win, you didn't do anything.
>
> I cheered loudly. I'm sure my voice was that one that inspired Brian
> Sutter to steal that puck with a minute to go and sweep it home to tie
> the game, and later motivated Doug Wickenheiser to hammer the shot home
> in overtime.
>
> > The win didn't make the world a better place.
>
> It made my world a better place, for a couple days.

I've got no problem with what you do for entertainment.

> > You probably didn't win anything, and yet,
> > you care.
>
> I didn't win anything tangible, but so what? I go to games for a
> reason. It's magic moments like that that will live forever (my forever
> anyway).
>
> Brian

I don't want to tell you how to spend your free time.
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norrin wrote:

> Default User wrote:
> > norrin wrote:
> > > Default User wrote:
> > > > norrin wrote:

> > > > > Do you think it's possible to tell if you're awake or not?
> >
> > > > Yes. Don't you?
> >
> > > It's hard to be certain of something like that. I'm awake, of
> > > course.
> >
> > It may be hard for you. I rarely have trouble.
>
> You're awake, but you're dreaming.

No, I'm not. That's never happened to me either.

> > > > > You have physical evidence, a birth certificate and a diploma.
> >
> > > > Irrelevant. Your contention was that things you are certain of
> > > > are likely to be incorrect. I'm certain that I was in
> > > > attendance in 1986 when the Blues rallied back from three down
> > > > to beat Calgary in overtime (the Monday Night Miracle). I have
> > > > no physical proof, but I'm certain.
> >
> > > It's important to you, which is odd.
> >
> > I don't know what's odd about it. After all, the event has a name,
> > so a lot of people remember it to this day.
>
> A lot of people remember DB Cooper. He has a name given by
> journalists who used an alias referring to a person, but got it wrong
> and added a middle initial.

I don't understand what this has to do with what I said. You found it
odd that I remember a particular sporting event.

> > > You probably didn't win anything, and yet,
> > > you care.
> >
> > I didn't win anything tangible, but so what? I go to games for a
> > reason. It's magic moments like that that will live forever (my
> > forever anyway).

> I don't want to tell you how to spend your free time.

Not that it would do you any good, of course.




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
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Default User wrote:
> norrin wrote:
> > Default User wrote:
> > > norrin wrote:
> > > > Default User wrote:
> > > > > norrin wrote:
> > > > > > Do you think it's possible to tell if you're awake or not?
>
> > > > > Yes. Don't you?
>
> > > > It's hard to be certain of something like that. I'm awake, of
> > > > course.
>
> > > It may be hard for you. I rarely have trouble.
>
> > You're awake, but you're dreaming.
>
> No, I'm not. That's never happened to me either.

What an interesting conversation.

> > > > > > You have physical evidence, a birth certificate and a diploma.
>
> > > > > Irrelevant. Your contention was that things you are certain of
> > > > > are likely to be incorrect. I'm certain that I was in
> > > > > attendance in 1986 when the Blues rallied back from three down
> > > > > to beat Calgary in overtime (the Monday Night Miracle). I have
> > > > > no physical proof, but I'm certain.
>
> > > > It's important to you, which is odd.
>
> > > I don't know what's odd about it. After all, the event has a name,
> > > so a lot of people remember it to this day.
>
> > A lot of people remember DB Cooper. He has a name given by
> > journalists who used an alias referring to a person, but got it wrong
> > and added a middle initial.
>
> I don't understand what this has to do with what I said. You found it
> odd that I remember a particular sporting event.

Memory is less what happens and more what gets printed in the
newspapers.

> > > > You probably didn't win anything, and yet,
> > > > you care.
>
> > > I didn't win anything tangible, but so what? I go to games for a
> > > reason. It's magic moments like that that will live forever (my
> > > forever anyway).
> > I don't want to tell you how to spend your free time.
>
> Not that it would do you any good, of course.
>

Because you're too busy?
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norrin wrote:

> Default User wrote:

> > I don't understand what this has to do with what I said. You found
> > it odd that I remember a particular sporting event.
>
> Memory is less what happens and more what gets printed in the
> newspapers.

Or seen in replays. It was a famous event, locally.

> > > I don't want to tell you how to spend your free time.
> >
> > Not that it would do you any good, of course.
> >
>
> Because you're too busy?

Because I wouldn't pay any attention.




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
 >> Stay informed about: Thrint Question 

Default User wrote:
> norrin wrote:
> > Default User wrote:
> > > I don't understand what this has to do with what I said. You found
> > > it odd that I remember a particular sporting event.
>
> > Memory is less what happens and more what gets printed in the
> > newspapers.
>
> Or seen in replays. It was a famous event, locally.

The number of people who know a fact is not decisive. The statements
of a witness are as reliable as the witness, and there is no witness
who
is considered perfectly reliable by all people. The coherence of a
fact
is increased by witnesses, written records, photos, and other sources.

The score of a game is a very coherent statement, because it's backed
up by fans, newspaper, almanacs, and films. Alternative theories about
the score of the game have a lower coherence. The probability that the
statement is false is very low, but not zero.

> > > > I don't want to tell you how to spend your free time.
>
> > > Not that it would do you any good, of course.
>
> > Because you're too busy?
>
> Because I wouldn't pay any attention.
>
> Brian

Because I didn't use a keyword.
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Tim Bruening wrote:
> To put down the Tnuctipun uprising, the Thrint elders built a super
> duper amplifier helmet and used it to order everyone in the galaxy to
> commit suicide, including themselves.  Why didn't the Thrint apply the
> suicide order only to the Tnuctipun?  ("All Tnuctipun commit suicide at
> once.  All other slaves take a one day nap").

"Suicide night" is a speculation. It may be that they did give a
selective order, but then died out because they couldn't run their
empire without the slaves. "The Handicapped" speculates that Grogs are
descended from Thrint. Some are bound to have been in stasis, but it
is unclear whether or not the "speed of psi" is instant or lightspeed
or some other speed, or whether it could echo off a nearby galaxy and
cause another wave of extinction a few million years later.

Phil Hibbs.
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