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pinkmonster200

External


Since: Jan 03, 2005
Posts: 49



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:25 pm
Post subject: Wintersmith review
Archived from groups: alt>books>pratchett (more info?)

This was a review of the novel Wintersmith written by myself to a
member from the newsgroup in an e-mail a couple of months ago. He
recently asked me if I'd consider putting it up on abp... so here it is.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R






Tiffany seemed to lose all all the courage she had in the first two
novels as the strong, brave and independent minded "big wee hag" who
ran around fighting evil monsters without needing anybody else's
help... exept the feegles of course. She had now become the sweet and
innocent stereotyped "Maiden-in-distress, simply awaiting her strong,
brave, hero (Roland) to come and rescue her.

She had suddenly become like a little kitten, now depending on other
witches to rescue her, such as Miss Treason at the beginning, mainly
Granny Weatherwax after her, who then, together with Nanny Ogg
protected and advised her 24 hours a day. Even Miss Tick and Annagramma
helped out to some extent!

I have to say, I simply fell in love with Roland in this story.
Although he was only 13, his courage, loyalty and love for his lady
seemed to astound me. How brave and romantic he was, and his
willingness to be a hero, a Knight in shining armour searching the
dark, spooky depths of the Netherworld for her.

I wasn't quite sure what the job of the Cornucopia was as a weapon
against the Wintersmith. At first I thought the Summer Lady had sent it
to Tiffany especially to kill him with... just in case she didn't wake
up in time to help her. It wasn't used for this purpose though - it
just made lots of chickens instead. Giggle, giggle! Smile

The Wintersmith only died after Tiffany kissed him at the end... which
made me curious as to why she didn't know this before and destroy him
earlier... and why on earth did she need Roland for in the first place
if she could kill the snowman herself?!

All in all though, it was a very pleasant and enjoyable read, but just
a little confusing at the end!


Thanks for reading



Sofie


--
Please visit my deviantART page: http://sofen.deviantart.com/

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Reader in Invisible Writi

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Since: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 88



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Wintersmith review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Sofia wrote:
> This was a review of the novel Wintersmith written by myself to a
> member from the newsgroup in an e-mail a couple of months ago. He
> recently asked me if I'd consider putting it up on abp... so here it is.
>
> S

> P

> O

> I

> L

> E

> R


S

P

A

C

E


for those with deep screens
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tiffany seemed to lose all all the courage she had in the first two
> novels as the strong, brave and independent minded "big wee hag" who
> ran around fighting evil monsters without needing anybody else's
> help... exept the feegles of course. She had now become the sweet and
> innocent stereotyped "Maiden-in-distress, simply awaiting her strong,
> brave, hero (Roland) to come and rescue her.
>
> She had suddenly become like a little kitten, now depending on other
> witches to rescue her, such as Miss Treason at the beginning, mainly
> Granny Weatherwax after her, who then, together with Nanny Ogg
> protected and advised her 24 hours a day. Even Miss Tick and Annagramma
> helped out to some extent!
>
> I have to say, I simply fell in love with Roland in this story.
> Although he was only 13, his courage, loyalty and love for his lady
> seemed to astound me. How brave and romantic he was, and his
> willingness to be a hero, a Knight in shining armour searching the
> dark, spooky depths of the Netherworld for her.
>
> I wasn't quite sure what the job of the Cornucopia was as a weapon
> against the Wintersmith. At first I thought the Summer Lady had sent it
> to Tiffany especially to kill him with... just in case she didn't wake
> up in time to help her. It wasn't used for this purpose though - it
> just made lots of chickens instead. Giggle, giggle! Smile
>
> The Wintersmith only died after Tiffany kissed him at the end... which
> made me curious as to why she didn't know this before and destroy him
> earlier... and why on earth did she need Roland for in the first place
> if she could kill the snowman herself?!
>
> All in all though, it was a very pleasant and enjoyable read, but just
> a little confusing at the end!
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
>
> Sofie
>
>
Not sure if you are looking for explanations, but at the end both Winter
has to be banished and Summer has to be summoned. Tiffany and Roland
needed to work together (but apart) to archive this.

The key to the kiss was first given when Granny moved the heat from the
tea cup so that it froze. (Important that the heat does not go through
you) *

Tiffany, with great courage because she knows the risk, takes this
shifting of heat to a much higher magnitude when she shifts the heat of
the bonfire to the drifts of snow.
Tiffany, with great courage because she knows the risk, takes this
shifting of heat to a much higher magnitude when she shifts the heat of
the sun to the lips of the Wintersmith.

That's how she banishes him and that's why it could not have been done
earlier. She did not have the opportunity, did not know how and the
time was not right. Winter makes way for Summer. Without Summer -
Winter can never be truly banished, the Morris Men don't come, and you
get a grey cold year where crops fail and people starve, followed by a
Winter when they die.

*An IW for this skill is in CJ when Granny moves the heat of the
Vampires 'curse' into the Iron of the anvil. I will have to check if
there is a IW for Granny being able to move heat and pain before this
book.


--
Reader in Invisible Writings.. Something to Ponder upon!

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ncwaite1

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Since: Dec 17, 2004
Posts: 29



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:38 am
Post subject: Re: Wintersmith review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Reader in Invisible Writings wrote:
> Sofia wrote:
> > This was a review of the novel Wintersmith written by myself to a
> > member from the newsgroup in an e-mail a couple of months ago. He
> > recently asked me if I'd consider putting it up on abp... so here it is.
> >
> > S
>
> > P
>
> > O
>
> > I
>
> > L
>
> > E
>
> > R
>
>
> S
>
> P
>
> A
>
> C
>
> E
>
>
> for those with deep screens
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

<snip>

> *An IW for this skill is in CJ when Granny moves the heat of the
> Vampires 'curse' into the Iron of the anvil. I will have to check if
> there is a IW for Granny being able to move heat and pain before this
> book.
>

Something similar takes place in Maskerade after Granny catches the
sword. There the pain and damage from the sword cuts are transfered
through time rather than space.

Possibly something similar takes place in Witches Abroad when Granny
thrusts her arm in the flame causing Mrs Gogol's voodoo doll to burst
into flames. The explanation for the doll bursting into flames is
that it is due to Mrs Gogol's belief in voodoo being manipulated by
Granny [1]. However, that isn't enough to explain why the flame
doesn't injure Granny. She must be using some method of transfering
the heat and pain elsewhere.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[1] i.e. Mrs Gogol believes that any damage done to the doll will
affect Granny and Granny simply reverses the process.
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Anery

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Since: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 10



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:46 am
Post subject: Re: Wintersmith review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 17 Pro, 09:38, wrote:
> Reader in Invisible Writings wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sofia wrote:
> > > This was a  review of the novel Wintersmith written by myself to a
> > > member from the newsgroup in an e-mail a couple of months ago. He
> > > recently asked me if I'd consider putting it up on abp... so here it is.
>
> > > S
>
> > > P
>
> > > O
>
> > > I
>
> > > L
>
> > > E
>
> > > R
>
> > S
>
> > P
>
> > A
>
> > C
>
> > E
>
> > for those with deep screens
>
> <snip>
>
> > *An IW for this skill is in CJ when Granny moves the heat of the
> > Vampires 'curse' into the Iron of the anvil.  I will have to check if
> > there is a IW for Granny being able to move heat and pain before this
> > book.
>
> Something similar takes place in Maskerade after Granny catches the
> sword.  There the pain and damage from the sword cuts are transfered
> through time rather than space.
>
<snip>

Also in Maskerade, Granny moves the heat away from her body, after
eating Nanny's famous dessert at the lunch with Senor Basilica.
Afterwards, she holds a water jug (or something like that) and the
water starts boiling.

Anery
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Reader in Invisible Writi

External


Since: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 88



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Wintersmith review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

wrote:
> Reader in Invisible Writings wrote:
>> Sofia wrote:
>>> This was a review of the novel Wintersmith written by myself to a
>>> member from the newsgroup in an e-mail a couple of months ago. He
>>> recently asked me if I'd consider putting it up on abp... so here it is.
>>>
>>> S
>>> P
>>> O
>>> I
>>> L
>>> E
>>> R
>>
>> S
>>
>> P
>>
>> A
>>
>> C
>>
>> E
>>
>>
>> for those with deep screens
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> <snip>
>
>> *An IW for this skill is in CJ when Granny moves the heat of the
>> Vampires 'curse' into the Iron of the anvil. I will have to check if
>> there is a IW for Granny being able to move heat and pain before this
>> book.
>>
>
> Something similar takes place in Maskerade after Granny catches the
> sword. There the pain and damage from the sword cuts are transfered
> through time rather than space.
>
> Possibly something similar takes place in Witches Abroad when Granny
> thrusts her arm in the flame causing Mrs Gogol's voodoo doll to burst
> into flames. The explanation for the doll bursting into flames is
> that it is due to Mrs Gogol's belief in voodoo being manipulated by
> Granny [1]. However, that isn't enough to explain why the flame
> doesn't injure Granny. She must be using some method of transfering
> the heat and pain elsewhere.
>
> Cheers,
> Nigel.
>
> [1] i.e. Mrs Gogol believes that any damage done to the doll will
> affect Granny and Granny simply reverses the process.
I though there may be something is WS but then realised I was getting
the WS scene with the child and the cow interlinked with the CJ scene
with the woman and the baby "But first no pain" which is an IW for the
skill Tiffany learns and uses on the Baron. But you have a point
regarding the torch and the doll... Granny just pushed to where Mrs
Gogol was pulling.

--
Reader in Invisible Writings.. Something to Ponder upon!
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Reader in Invisible Writi

External


Since: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 88



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Wintersmith review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Anery wrote:
> On 17 Pro, 09:38, wrote:
>> Reader in Invisible Writings wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sofia wrote:
>>>> This was a review of the novel Wintersmith written by myself to a
>>>> member from the newsgroup in an e-mail a couple of months ago. He
>>>> recently asked me if I'd consider putting it up on abp... so here it is.
>>>> S
>>>> P
>>>> O
>>>> I
>>>> L
>>>> E
>>>> R
>>> S
>>> P
>>> A
>>> C
>>> E
>>> for those with deep screens
>> <snip>
>>
>>> *An IW for this skill is in CJ when Granny moves the heat of the
>>> Vampires 'curse' into the Iron of the anvil. I will have to check if
>>> there is a IW for Granny being able to move heat and pain before this
>>> book.
>> Something similar takes place in Maskerade after Granny catches the
>> sword. There the pain and damage from the sword cuts are transfered
>> through time rather than space.
>>
> <snip>
>
> Also in Maskerade, Granny moves the heat away from her body, after
> eating Nanny's famous dessert at the lunch with Senor Basilica.
> Afterwards, she holds a water jug (or something like that) and the
> water starts boiling.
>
> Anery
That's the Bunny! Very slippery these IW but so satisfying.

The M! incident is much closer to what happens in CJ as it is heat in
the body shifted to else where - the WS trick is to shift is from A to B
via the body without getting incinerated! Just the same, but more so!

--
Reader in Invisible Writings.. Something to Ponder upon!
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Daibhid Ceanaideach

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Since: Sep 21, 2005
Posts: 234



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:26 pm
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On 16 Dec 2008, Sofia wrote:

> This was a review of the novel Wintersmith written by myself to a
> member from the newsgroup in an e-mail a couple of months ago. He
> recently asked me if I'd consider putting it up on abp... so here it
> is.
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tiffany seemed to lose all all the courage she had in the first two
> novels as the strong, brave and independent minded "big wee hag" who
> ran around fighting evil monsters without needing anybody else's
> help... exept the feegles of course. She had now become the sweet and
> innocent stereotyped "Maiden-in-distress, simply awaiting her strong,
> brave, hero (Roland) to come and rescue her.

Splutter! Did you read the same book I did? Tiffany needs rescuing at one
point (when she's in the wintersmith's castle) and she rescues herself.

> She had suddenly become like a little kitten, now depending on other
> witches to rescue her, such as Miss Treason at the beginning, mainly
> Granny Weatherwax after her, who then, together with Nanny Ogg
> protected and advised her 24 hours a day. Even Miss Tick and
> Annagramma helped out to some extent!

Ah, you didn't. In the one I read, Tiff helped Anagramma, not the other
way round, and Granny did her usual thing of helping her help herself,
rather than handing her the answers.

Roland, meanwhile, provided a deeply symbolic and undeniably romantic
gesture, which probably didn't actually make much difference.

--
Dave
"All those with psychokinesis, raise my hand."
The Room With No Doors, Kate Orman
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pinkmonster200

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Since: Jan 03, 2005
Posts: 49



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:25 pm
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On 19 Dec 2008 01:14:14 GMT
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:

> On 16 Dec 2008, Sofia wrote:
>
> > This was a review of the novel Wintersmith written by myself to a
> > member from the newsgroup in an e-mail a couple of months ago. He
> > recently asked me if I'd consider putting it up on abp... so here it
> > is.
> >
> > S
> > P
> > O
> > I
> > L
> > E
> > R
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tiffany seemed to lose all all the courage she had in the first two
> > novels as the strong, brave and independent minded "big wee hag" who
> > ran around fighting evil monsters without needing anybody else's
> > help... exept the feegles of course. She had now become the sweet
> > and innocent stereotyped "Maiden-in-distress, simply awaiting her
> > strong, brave, hero (Roland) to come and rescue her.
>
> Splutter! Did you read the same book I did? Tiffany needs rescuing at
> one point (when she's in the wintersmith's castle) and she rescues
> herself.

Yup, exactly the same one! Inside the castle is the only place she
rescues herself. The rest of the time she needed the help of the
feegles, the witches and Roland.
>
> > She had suddenly become like a little kitten, now depending on other
> > witches to rescue her, such as Miss Treason at the beginning, mainly
> > Granny Weatherwax after her, who then, together with Nanny Ogg
> > protected and advised her 24 hours a day. Even Miss Tick and
> > Annagramma helped out to some extent!
>
> Ah, you didn't. In the one I read, Tiff helped Anagramma, not the
> other way round, and Granny did her usual thing of helping her help
> herself, rather than handing her the answers.

When I wrote "Annagramma helped to some extent ", I was talking
about after she'd picked up Witchcraft from Tiffany and bought
herself several scary, fake, Witch-like jokey objects from Boffo's
joke shop. She didn't even know he was the Wintersmith at the time,
all she saw was Tiff arguing with a man, so she came out of miss
Treason's old cottage in a rage, and dressed as an ugly Boffo witch.
With her witches hat, green hair, warts on warts and bullying
tactics, she frightened him away immediately! Tiff was very grateful,
and they called it a truce.
>
> Roland, meanwhile, provided a deeply symbolic and undeniably romantic
> gesture, which probably didn't actually make much difference.

Roland was asked to be a brave hero, a knight in shining armour for his
sweetheart. He had to get into the Netherworld by joining the
ferryman, Death, the last thing anybody would want to see on a
journey, on a trip across the ferry to find his next frightening fate
of finding and fighting those Bogles... with his eyes shut! He then
had to find and awaken the Summer Lady with a peck on the cheek, when
he ended up having to make the same trip all the way back again with
those Bogles and the ferryman before he finally got the Summer Lady
back again.

If he hadn't gotten her back again, then she couldn't have replaced
the Wintersmith after Tiff had kissed him. That's the part I was
confused about most. How she killed him with the kiss at that moment,
and why she didn't try it before.

I think others in the group are saying that Tiff killed the Wintersmith
by taking the heat from the Summer Lady who was standing behind her at
the time, and used that heat to kill him with it. I obviously didn't
know that before which is what left me confused at the end, but if that
is the case, might I thank those others as I know that now. Also, if
Roland hadn't gotten the Summer Lady out of the Netherworld, then she
would never have been there to have taken the heat from in the first
place, so Roland played a very important role in waking her up!


BTW: thanks to everybody who explained the heat transfer death to me,
it seems to make everything fall to pieces now.


Sofie

--
Please visit my deviantART page: http://sofen.deviantart.com/
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steveski

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Since: Oct 25, 2007
Posts: 16



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:25 pm
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:15:05 +0000, Sofia wrote:

[snip]

> If he hadn't gotten her back again, then she couldn't have replaced the
> Wintersmith after Tiff had kissed him. That's the part I was confused
> about most. How she killed him with the kiss at that moment, and why she
> didn't try it before.
>
> I think others in the group are saying that Tiff killed the Wintersmith
> by taking the heat from the Summer Lady who was standing behind her at
> the time, and used that heat to kill him with it. I obviously didn't
> know that before which is what left me confused at the end, but if that
> is the case, might I thank those others as I know that now. Also, if
> Roland hadn't gotten the Summer Lady out of the Netherworld, then she
> would never have been there to have taken the heat from in the first
> place, so Roland played a very important role in waking her up!


I don't think she actually *killed* the WinterSmith - just his corporeal
incarnation (and I think of it as more frightening him back to his
demisemi-godhood). He/it is still the elemental responsible for winter.

--
Steveski
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nospam45

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Since: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 41



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:25 am
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Sofia schrieb:
> On 19 Dec 2008 01:14:14 GMT
> Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
>
>> On 16 Dec 2008, Sofia wrote:
>>

S
P
O
I
L
E
R






>>> Tiffany seemed to lose all all the courage she had in the first two
>>> novels as the strong, brave and independent minded "big wee hag" who
>>> ran around fighting evil monsters without needing anybody else's
>>> help... exept the feegles of course. She had now become the sweet
>>> and innocent stereotyped "Maiden-in-distress, simply awaiting her
>>> strong, brave, hero (Roland) to come and rescue her.
>> Splutter! Did you read the same book I did? Tiffany needs rescuing at
>> one point (when she's in the wintersmith's castle) and she rescues
>> herself.
>
> Yup, exactly the same one! Inside the castle is the only place she
> rescues herself. The rest of the time she needed the help of the
> feegles, the witches and Roland.

There is a difference between needing some help and being a stereotyped
maiden-in-distress. I find it perfectly OK that Tiffany can't solve
every problem immediately on her own, and I don't see a loss of courage
because of this.

> If he hadn't gotten her back again, then she couldn't have replaced
> the Wintersmith after Tiff had kissed him.

Yes, I also think so. Isn't it great that Roland had a vital part to
play instead of only sitting around writing letters?

> That's the part I was
> confused about most. How she killed him with the kiss at that moment,
> and why she didn't try it before.
>
The time had to be right.

> I think others in the group are saying that Tiff killed the Wintersmith
> by taking the heat from the Summer Lady who was standing behind her at
> the time, and used that heat to kill him with it. I obviously didn't
> know that before which is what left me confused at the end, but if that
> is the case, might I thank those others as I know that now. Also, if
> Roland hadn't gotten the Summer Lady out of the Netherworld, then she
> would never have been there to have taken the heat from in the first
> place, so Roland played a very important role in waking her up!
>
You've got it right about the heat transfer, but she didn't take the
heat from the Summer Lady, she took the heat from the sun.

Joerg
--
"Quoth the raven: Nevermore!" -- E.A.Poe
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Reader in Invisible Writi

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Since: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 88



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:25 am
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Joerg Ruedenauer wrote:
> Sofia schrieb:
>> On 19 Dec 2008 01:14:14 GMT
>> Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
>>
>>> On 16 Dec 2008, Sofia wrote:
>>>
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>> Tiffany seemed to lose all all the courage she had in the first two
>>>> novels as the strong, brave and independent minded "big wee hag" who
>>>> ran around fighting evil monsters without needing anybody else's
>>>> help... exept the feegles of course. She had now become the sweet
>>>> and innocent stereotyped "Maiden-in-distress, simply awaiting her
>>>> strong, brave, hero (Roland) to come and rescue her.
>>> Splutter! Did you read the same book I did? Tiffany needs rescuing at
>>> one point (when she's in the wintersmith's castle) and she rescues
>>> herself.
>> Yup, exactly the same one! Inside the castle is the only place she
>> rescues herself. The rest of the time she needed the help of the
>> feegles, the witches and Roland.
>
> There is a difference between needing some help and being a stereotyped
> maiden-in-distress. I find it perfectly OK that Tiffany can't solve
> every problem immediately on her own, and I don't see a loss of courage
> because of this.
>
>> If he hadn't gotten her back again, then she couldn't have replaced
>> the Wintersmith after Tiff had kissed him.
>
> Yes, I also think so. Isn't it great that Roland had a vital part to
> play instead of only sitting around writing letters?
>
>> That's the part I was
>> confused about most. How she killed him with the kiss at that moment,
>> and why she didn't try it before.
>>
> The time had to be right.
>
>> I think others in the group are saying that Tiff killed the Wintersmith
>> by taking the heat from the Summer Lady who was standing behind her at
>> the time, and used that heat to kill him with it. I obviously didn't
>> know that before which is what left me confused at the end, but if that
>> is the case, might I thank those others as I know that now. Also, if
>> Roland hadn't gotten the Summer Lady out of the Netherworld, then she
>> would never have been there to have taken the heat from in the first
>> place, so Roland played a very important role in waking her up!
>>
> You've got it right about the heat transfer, but she didn't take the
> heat from the Summer Lady, she took the heat from the sun.
>
> Joerg
Exactly
p.381 "nothing to feel but the warmth of the sun on her hair. It wasn't
the fiery globe of the summer, but still bigger much than
any bonfire could ever be." .... "letting the warmth pour into her" ..
p.382.. "Balance ... and it came quickly" .... "She shut her eyes and
kissed the wintersmith ... and drew down the sun."

--
Reader in Invisible Writings.. Something to Ponder upon!
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ncwaite1

External


Since: Dec 17, 2004
Posts: 29



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:53 am
Post subject: Re: Wintersmith review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Reader in Invisible Writings wrote:
> Joerg Ruedenauer wrote:
> > Sofia schrieb:
> >> On 19 Dec 2008 01:14:14 GMT
> >> Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 16 Dec 2008, Sofia wrote:
> >>>
> >
> > S
> > P
> > O
> > I
> > L
> > E
> > R
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> Tiffany seemed to lose all all the courage she had in the first two
> >>>> novels as the strong, brave and independent minded "big wee hag" who
> >>>> ran around fighting evil monsters without needing anybody else's
> >>>> help... exept the feegles of course. She had now become the sweet
> >>>> and innocent stereotyped "Maiden-in-distress, simply awaiting her
> >>>> strong, brave, hero (Roland) to come and rescue her.
> >>> Splutter! Did you read the same book I did? Tiffany needs rescuing at
> >>> one point (when she's in the wintersmith's castle) and she rescues
> >>> herself.
> >> Yup, exactly the same one! Inside the castle is the only place she
> >> rescues herself. The rest of the time she needed the help of the
> >> feegles, the witches and Roland.
> >
> > There is a difference between needing some help and being a stereotyped
> > maiden-in-distress. I find it perfectly OK that Tiffany can't solve
> > every problem immediately on her own, and I don't see a loss of courage
> > because of this.
> >
> >> If he hadn't gotten her back again, then she couldn't have replaced
> >> the Wintersmith after Tiff had kissed him.
> >
> > Yes, I also think so. Isn't it great that Roland had a vital part to
> > play instead of only sitting around writing letters?
> >
> >> That's the part I was
> >> confused about most. How she killed him with the kiss at that moment,
> >> and why she didn't try it before.
> >>
> > The time had to be right.
> >
> >> I think others in the group are saying that Tiff killed the Wintersmith
> >> by taking the heat from the Summer Lady who was standing behind her at
> >> the time, and used that heat to kill him with it. I obviously didn't
> >> know that before which is what left me confused at the end, but if that
> >> is the case, might I thank those others as I know that now. Also, if
> >> Roland hadn't gotten the Summer Lady out of the Netherworld, then she
> >> would never have been there to have taken the heat from in the first
> >> place, so Roland played a very important role in waking her up!
> >>
> > You've got it right about the heat transfer, but she didn't take the
> > heat from the Summer Lady, she took the heat from the sun.
> >
> > Joerg
> Exactly
> p.381 "nothing to feel but the warmth of the sun on her hair. It wasn't
> the fiery globe of the summer, but still bigger much than
> any bonfire could ever be." .... "letting the warmth pour into her" ..
> p.382.. "Balance ... and it came quickly" .... "She shut her eyes and
> kissed the wintersmith ... and drew down the sun."
>

It's more of a matter of balance [1]. If she'd killed Winter before
Summer was free to replace him, it would have resulted in chaos. Note
that Tiffany upset the balance to begin with by getting involved in
the dance between Winter and Summer. Merely getting rid of Winter
wouldn't have restored the situation.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[1] Balance between Winter and Summer is an important theme in this
story. Note the use of the black morris dance in Autumn to balance
the white one in the spring (also refered to in RM).
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Reader in Invisible Writi

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Since: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 88



(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Wintersmith review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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wrote:
> Reader in Invisible Writings wrote:
>> Joerg Ruedenauer wrote:
>>> Sofia schrieb:
>>>> On 19 Dec 2008 01:14:14 GMT
>>>> Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 16 Dec 2008, Sofia wrote:
>>>>>
>>> S
>>> P
>>> O
>>> I
>>> L
>>> E
>>> R
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Tiffany seemed to lose all all the courage she had in the first two
>>>>>> novels as the strong, brave and independent minded "big wee hag" who
>>>>>> ran around fighting evil monsters without needing anybody else's
>>>>>> help... exept the feegles of course. She had now become the sweet
>>>>>> and innocent stereotyped "Maiden-in-distress, simply awaiting her
>>>>>> strong, brave, hero (Roland) to come and rescue her.
>>>>> Splutter! Did you read the same book I did? Tiffany needs rescuing at
>>>>> one point (when she's in the wintersmith's castle) and she rescues
>>>>> herself.
>>>> Yup, exactly the same one! Inside the castle is the only place she
>>>> rescues herself. The rest of the time she needed the help of the
>>>> feegles, the witches and Roland.
>>> There is a difference between needing some help and being a stereotyped
>>> maiden-in-distress. I find it perfectly OK that Tiffany can't solve
>>> every problem immediately on her own, and I don't see a loss of courage
>>> because of this.
>>>
>>>> If he hadn't gotten her back again, then she couldn't have replaced
>>>> the Wintersmith after Tiff had kissed him.
>>> Yes, I also think so. Isn't it great that Roland had a vital part to
>>> play instead of only sitting around writing letters?
>>>
>>>> That's the part I was
>>>> confused about most. How she killed him with the kiss at that moment,
>>>> and why she didn't try it before.
>>>>
>>> The time had to be right.
>>>
>>>> I think others in the group are saying that Tiff killed the Wintersmith
>>>> by taking the heat from the Summer Lady who was standing behind her at
>>>> the time, and used that heat to kill him with it. I obviously didn't
>>>> know that before which is what left me confused at the end, but if that
>>>> is the case, might I thank those others as I know that now. Also, if
>>>> Roland hadn't gotten the Summer Lady out of the Netherworld, then she
>>>> would never have been there to have taken the heat from in the first
>>>> place, so Roland played a very important role in waking her up!
>>>>
>>> You've got it right about the heat transfer, but she didn't take the
>>> heat from the Summer Lady, she took the heat from the sun.
>>>
>>> Joerg
>> Exactly
>> p.381 "nothing to feel but the warmth of the sun on her hair. It wasn't
>> the fiery globe of the summer, but still bigger much than
>> any bonfire could ever be." .... "letting the warmth pour into her" ..
>> p.382.. "Balance ... and it came quickly" .... "She shut her eyes and
>> kissed the wintersmith ... and drew down the sun."
>>
>
> It's more of a matter of balance [1]. If she'd killed Winter before
> Summer was free to replace him, it would have resulted in chaos. Note
> that Tiffany upset the balance to begin with by getting involved in
> the dance between Winter and Summer. Merely getting rid of Winter
> wouldn't have restored the situation.
>
> Cheers,
> Nigel.
>
> [1] Balance between Winter and Summer is an important theme in this
> story. Note the use of the black morris dance in Autumn to balance
> the white one in the spring (also refered to in RM).

Agreed, see my post of 16/12. I did not repeat what I had already said.
My post here was to clarify that the heat was not from the Summer
Lady, but from the sun - a terrifying prospect, even compare to
channelling the heat of a bonfire! (an error of 1 part in 100,000,000
from a bonfire does not compare with 1 part in 1000,000,000,000,000 from
the sun!)

--
Reader in Invisible Writings.. Something to Ponder upon!
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pinkmonster200

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Since: Jan 03, 2005
Posts: 49



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Wintersmith review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 21 Dec 2008 02:41:15 GMT
steveski wrote:

> >
> > I think others in the group are saying that Tiff killed the
> > Wintersmith by taking the heat from the Summer Lady who was
> > standing behind her at the time, and used that heat to kill him
> > with it. I obviously didn't know that before which is what left me
> > confused at the end, but if that is the case, might I thank those
> > others as I know that now. Also, if Roland hadn't gotten the Summer
> > Lady out of the Netherworld, then she would never have been there
> > to have taken the heat from in the first place, so Roland played a
> > very important role in waking her up!
>
>
> I don't think she actually *killed* the WinterSmith - just his
> corporeal incarnation (and I think of it as more frightening him back
> to his demisemi-godhood). He/it is still the elemental responsible
> for winter.


Tiffany's "killed" him/it for the time being, and if he doesn't exist
on Discworld anymore, he's dead enough for me!


Happy Christmas ( Ugh, he seems to have come to see Earth right now )


Sofie

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Tobias

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Since: Dec 24, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Wintersmith review [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Sofia" wrote in message

>
> Tiffany's "killed" him/it for the time being, and if he doesn't exist
> on Discworld anymore, he's dead enough for me!
>
>
> Happy Christmas ( Ugh, he seems to have come to see Earth right now )
>
>
Only in certain parts of the world. Here in Queensland, Australia it's
blistering summer.

Tobias
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