counting the books

What does "Emerson" have to do with anything?

"e4e5" <e4e5.RemoveThis@direcway.com> wrote in message
news:46288738.0402270638.1f4a8d5f@posting.google.com...
 > For the information provided by Ed Seiler in his FAQ see
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.asimovonline.com/asimov_FAQ.html#starters1</font" target="_blank">http://www.asimovonline.com/asimov_FAQ.html#starters1</font</a>>
 >
 > the first question is this issue, and Ed ends up by saying "somewhat
 > over 500"
 >
 > Let me start by just saying "Emerson"
 > Isaac, himself was very inconsistent in the method that he did or did
 > not count a "book". It is not my intention to clean up that
 > inconsistency (I say again, "Emerson")
 >
 > Ed lists 468 numbered books in the list of "in order published", in
 > addition, he lists 40 books after #468 without numbers (most published
 > after Isaac's death, hence Dr. Asimov, himself, did not (could not)
 > ennumerate).
 > There is one book inserted between #443 and #444 without a number.
 > that brings 468+40+1 = 509 total titles in the "Official" list. (the
 > opening paragraph says 506, but hey, whose checking?)
 >
 > To this, I add:
 >
 > Two books missing from the list:
 > _History of Chemistry (chart)_; Carolina Biological Supply, 1989
 > _Projects in Astronomy_ (Library of the Universe); Gareth Stevens,
 > 1989
 > (I stated there were three missing in an earlier post, found one
 > included, the one between 443 and 444)
 >
 > Two recent releases:
 > _Its Been a Good Life_; Prometheus, 2002
 > _The Return of the Black Widowers_; Carroll and Graf, 2003
 >
 > Two books that Isaac himself "Regretted not counting":
 > _Biochemistry and Human Metabolism, 2nd Edition_, (w/Walker, Boyd);
 > Williams and Wilkins, 1954
 > _Biochemistry and Human Metabolism, 3rd Edition_, (w/Walker, Boyd);
 > Williams and Wilkins, 1957
 >
 > and this one (I've been berated for including this one before, so
 > don't bother)
 > _I Robot, an Illustrated Screenplay_ (Harlan Ellison); Warner Aspect,
 > 1994
 > The reason I include it is that, although it was written in 1978, it
 > was not published until two years after his death. Isaac only counted
 > published works. I believe that Isaac had some input into its
 > creation as he and Harlan were good friends. I place this book in the
 > same category as the novelisations by Robert Silverberg (which WERE
 > counted). I am sure Isaac would have included it if he had the
 > chance.
 >
 > Additional inconsistencies abound, and if you want I could ennumerate
 > them, but not now. In any event, those above bring my total to:
 >
 > 516
 >
 > And if you disagree with me, well....
 > :
 > :
 > :
 > "EMERSON"
 >
 > OK Ed, let's just leave it at "Somewhat over 500"
 >
 > David
 > aka e4e5<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: counting the books 

In <NgS%b.5838$Ri6.3827@lakeread04> "davyd" <d.DeleteThis@c.kom> writes:

 >What does "Emerson" have to do with anything?

"Some years before this next story was written, two colleagues
and I joined forces in writing a large and complicated textbook
in biochemistry for medical students. We spend days -- literally
-- on the galley proofs, and frequently we came across minor
inconsistencies. We would spell a chemical one way here and
another way there; here a hyphen and there no hyphen; here one
phrase and yon an alternate.

"We despaired of getting everything perfectly concordant and one
of us finally said, "To quote Emerson: 'A foolish consistency is
the hobgoblin of little minds.'"

"We latched on to this with ebullient joy and thereafter,
whenever the proofreader questioned a small inconsistency, we
would write "Emerson!" in the margin and let it go

excerpted from Asimov's intro to "The Dying Night"
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
   dannyb.DeleteThis@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: counting the books 

"davyd" <d.DeleteThis@c.kom> wrote:

 >What does "Emerson" have to do with anything?

If you had read enough IA, you would know.
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Ogden Johnson III <oj3usmc DeleteThis @yahoo.com> writes:

 > "davyd" <d DeleteThis @c.kom> wrote:
 >
  > >What does "Emerson" have to do with anything?
 >
 > If you had read enough IA, you would know.

Just to point out, reading enough IA and _remembering_ it all are
different things.

/
:@-) Scott
\<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Lancelot appearing sideways <sa-hill1 DeleteThis @uchicago.edu> wrote:

 >Ogden Johnson III <oj3usmc DeleteThis @yahoo.com> writes:

  >> "davyd" <d DeleteThis @c.kom> wrote:

   >> >What does "Emerson" have to do with anything?

  >> If you had read enough IA, you would know.

 >Just to point out, reading enough IA and _remembering_ it all are
 >different things.

Granted. I've forgotten a *lot* of what IA wrote [unsurprising,
given how much he wrote and how much of that I have read]. But
those biographical tidbits that often showed up here and there in
his essays [e.g., and perhaps most notably, the introductions to
his F&SF magazine columns and the collections thereof] were
always memorable. I may not ever be able to render the Emerson
quote involved correctly, but I sure as hell will never forget
that story. ;->
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: counting the books 

In article <46288738.0402270638.1f4a8d5f RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
e4e5 RemoveThis @direcway.com (e4e5) wrote:

 > For the information provided by Ed Seiler in his FAQ see
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.asimovonline.com/asimov_FAQ.html#starters1</font" target="_blank">http://www.asimovonline.com/asimov_FAQ.html#starters1</font</a>>
 >
 > the first question is this issue, and Ed ends up by saying "somewhat
 > over 500"
 >
 > Let me start by just saying "Emerson"
 > Isaac, himself was very inconsistent in the method that he did or did
 > not count a "book". It is not my intention to clean up that
 > inconsistency (I say again, "Emerson")

Emerson also wrote "To be great is to be misunderstood".

 > Ed lists 468 numbered books in the list of "in order published", in
 > addition, he lists 40 books after #468 without numbers (most published
 > after Isaac's death, hence Dr. Asimov, himself, did not (could not)
 > ennumerate).
 > There is one book inserted between #443 and #444 without a number.
 > that brings 468+40+1 = 509 total titles in the "Official" list. (the
 > opening paragraph says 506, but hey, whose checking?)
 >
 > To this, I add:
 >
 > Two books missing from the list:
 > _History of Chemistry (chart)_; Carolina Biological Supply, 1989

I didn't count this for a number of reasons. In _I. Asimov_ (page 450 of
the hardback edition), he mentions _The History of Biology_ and _The
History of Mathematics_. Why didn't he mention _History of Chemistry_?
Also, my research shows records related to the writing of the two he
counted, but nothing about the Chemistry chart. Curiously enough, there
was a mention of a _History of Biotechnology_ chart for Carolina
Biological Supplies, finished in 1990, but I am not aware that it has
ever been published. Finally, I have never seen the Chemistry chart, so
there is an obscurity argument to be made as well.

It's possible that future research will determine where _History of
Chemistry_ came from, and then I may choose to count it. But until the
matter is determined conclusively, I stand by my decision to not count
it.

 > _Projects in Astronomy_ (Library of the Universe); Gareth Stevens,
 > 1989

According to Gareth Stevens himself, Asimov did not write Projects in
Astronomy. Once again I refer you to _I. Asimov_ (page 518 of the
hardback edition):

At the present time of writing, twenty-nine of the series have been
published and two are still in press. The thirty-second and last of the
series came up at a time when my health was such that I couldn't write
it. It was therefore written in-house, but I may be credited with it as
author, for the sake of series uniformity. (If it is, I won't give it a
number.)

That's why I did not count Projects in Astronomy.

 > (I stated there were three missing in an earlier post, found one
 > included, the one between 443 and 444)
 >
 > Two recent releases:
 > _Its Been a Good Life_; Prometheus, 2002

I have some qualms about counting this. Most of it is material from
Asimov's previous autobiographical volumes, and some of that is
abridged. On that basis, it shouldn't count as a book with a new number,
and there are numerous precedents supporting that reasoning. What makes
it a new book is the additional material provided by Janet Asimov, some
of it her own commentary and some of it correspondence written by Isaac.
In my opinion, the new material and the editorial decisions behind them
are what makes it her book.

 > _The Return of the Black Widowers_; Carroll and Graf, 2003

This I would count, since it does contain all of the previously
uncollected Black Widower stories, and is the kind of collection that
Asimov would have counted. It does contain previously collected stories,
but they are of a "best of" nature, and there is precedent for counting
collections of a similar nature.

 >
 > Two books that Isaac himself "Regretted not counting":
 > _Biochemistry and Human Metabolism, 2nd Edition_, (w/Walker, Boyd);
 > Williams and Wilkins, 1954
 > _Biochemistry and Human Metabolism, 3rd Edition_, (w/Walker, Boyd);
 > Williams and Wilkins, 1957

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, didn't.

 > and this one (I've been berated for including this one before, so
 > don't bother)
 > _I Robot, an Illustrated Screenplay_ (Harlan Ellison); Warner Aspect,
 > 1994
 > The reason I include it is that, although it was written in 1978, it
 > was not published until two years after his death. Isaac only counted
 > published works. I believe that Isaac had some input into its
 > creation as he and Harlan were good friends. I place this book in the
 > same category as the novelisations by Robert Silverberg (which WERE
 > counted). I am sure Isaac would have included it if he had the
 > chance.

But it was Harlan's book. I think there's a reasonable way to decide
this one. Ask Harlan if Isaac should have counted it if he were alive
when it was published.

 > Additional inconsistencies abound, and if you want I could ennumerate
 > them, but not now. In any event, those above bring my total to:
 >
 > 516
 >
 > And if you disagree with me, well....
 > :
 > :
 > :
 > "EMERSON"

You knew that I would. Keep in mind that Emerson wrote that "a FOOLISH
consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds".

 > OK Ed, let's just leave it at "Somewhat over 500"

Let's do that. That leaves room for future refinement without
significantly shortchanging the magnitude of the number.

 >
 > David
 > aka e4e5

--
Ed Seiler
aka james-the-first<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: counting the books 

Edward Seiler wrote:
 > Emerson also wrote "To be great is to be misunderstood".

Sigh. How often people interpret that in reverse.

Brian Tung <brian.DeleteThis@isi.edu>
The Astronomy Corner at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://astro.isi.edu/" target="_blank">http://astro.isi.edu/</a>
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 >> Stay informed about: counting the books 

<snip> almost everything else
asking for clarification...

 > At the present time of writing, twenty-nine of the series have been
 > published and two are still in press. The thirty-second and last of the
 > series came up at a time when my health was such that I couldn't write
 > it. It was therefore written in-house, but I may be credited with it as
 > author, for the sake of series uniformity. (If it is, I won't give it a
 > number.)
 >
 > That's why I did not count Projects in Astronomy.
 >

My copy of _Projects in Astronomy_ lists only Isaac Asimov as the
author and on the title page. (No co-author listed) and a copyright
date of 1990, (first printing) so I am a bit confused. Preceeding his
overwhelming illness and death by two years. Several volumes were
published after it.

It sounds like you are describing _The Future in Space_ that lists
Robert Giraud as co-author, and not published until 1993. But this
one is listed in the addended list (perhaps shouldn't be?)

David<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: counting the books 

  > > _History of Chemistry (chart)_; Carolina Biological Supply, 1989
 >
 > I didn't count this for a number of reasons. In _I. Asimov_ (page 450 of
 > the hardback edition), he mentions _The History of Biology_ and _The
 > History of Mathematics_. Why didn't he mention _History of Chemistry_?
 > Also, my research shows records related to the writing of the two he
 > counted, but nothing about the Chemistry chart. Curiously enough, there
 > was a mention of a _History of Biotechnology_ chart for Carolina
 > Biological Supplies, finished in 1990, but I am not aware that it has
 > ever been published. Finally, I have never seen the Chemistry chart, so
 > there is an obscurity argument to be made as well.
 >
 > It's possible that future research will determine where _History of
 > Chemistry_ came from, and then I may choose to count it. But until the
 > matter is determined conclusively, I stand by my decision to not count
 > it.
 >

I have a copy of the _History of Chemistry_ chart, and it looks
identical in format to the two listed (I have those as well).
When I ordered it from Carolina Biological Supply it was listed in
their catalogue as "by Isaac Asimov".
(_History of Biotechnology_ was not listed, and I was unaware of it)
It also clearly states in very large type "The History of Chemistry by
Isaac Asimov" in the lower right corner in the same manner that the
other two (Mathematics and Biology) are labeled. No disclaimer,
co-author or any other indication.
If you wish, I could photo that portion of the chart and send it to
you.

In my mind, all evidence points to Isaac Asimov. I don't think
Carolina would have been so blatant about it without it actually being
so, or without permission. It certainly looks, and reads, like his
work.
David<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: counting the books 

In article <46288738.0402291749.3b43b47b.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
e4e5.RemoveThis@direcway.com (e4e5) wrote:

 > <snip> almost everything else
 > asking for clarification...
 >
  > > At the present time of writing, twenty-nine of the series have been
  > > published and two are still in press. The thirty-second and last of the
  > > series came up at a time when my health was such that I couldn't write
  > > it. It was therefore written in-house, but I may be credited with it as
  > > author, for the sake of series uniformity. (If it is, I won't give it a
  > > number.)
  > >
  > > That's why I did not count Projects in Astronomy.
  > >
 >
 > My copy of _Projects in Astronomy_ lists only Isaac Asimov as the
 > author and on the title page. (No co-author listed) and a copyright
 > date of 1990, (first printing) so I am a bit confused. Preceeding his
 > overwhelming illness and death by two years. Several volumes were
 > published after it.
 >
 > It sounds like you are describing _The Future in Space_ that lists
 > Robert Giraud as co-author, and not published until 1993. But this
 > one is listed in the addended list (perhaps shouldn't be?)
 >
 > David

It is reasonable to assume that "at the time of this writing" was close
to the completion of _I. Asimov_ in May 1990. Although he was not done
with writing at that time, he had already experienced periods of
debilitation. The quote that I presented seems to indicate that one of
those periods occurred when he was due to complete the series. Also,
note that he refers to the thirty-second volume in the series. The index
to the series lists thirty-two volumes, but not _The Future in Space_,
which if it is to be counted as part of the series, would be either the
thirty-third or the thirty-fourth volume, depending on whether you count
the index too.

--
Ed Seiler<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: counting the books 

 > It also clearly states in very large type "The History of Chemistry by
 > Isaac Asimov" in the lower right corner in the same manner that the
 > other two (Mathematics and Biology) are labeled.

oops, my OTHER right; i.e. lower LEFT corner
 >
 > In my mind, all evidence points to Isaac Asimov. I don't think
 > Carolina would have been so blatant about it without it actually being
 > so, or without permission.

of course, it looks like Gareth Stevens did (i.e. previous thread on _Projects_)

 > David<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: counting the books 

Not so long ago, Brian Tung wrote:
 > Edward Seiler wrote:
  > > Emerson also wrote "To be great is to be misunderstood".

 > Sigh. How often people interpret that in reverse.

So true. Probably my least favorite thing about our "post-modern" world
Eschew obfuscation!

--
Joe Morris
Live music in Atlanta <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html" target="_blank">http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Thanks for the explanation.

"danny burstein" <dannyb RemoveThis @panix.com> wrote in message
news:c1orpu$k2p$1@reader2.panix.com...
 > In <NgS%b.5838$Ri6.3827@lakeread04> "davyd" <d RemoveThis @c.kom> writes:
 >
  > >What does "Emerson" have to do with anything?
 >
 > "Some years before this next story was written, two colleagues
 > and I joined forces in writing a large and complicated textbook
 > in biochemistry for medical students. We spend days -- literally
 > -- on the galley proofs, and frequently we came across minor
 > inconsistencies. We would spell a chemical one way here and
 > another way there; here a hyphen and there no hyphen; here one
 > phrase and yon an alternate.
 >
 > "We despaired of getting everything perfectly concordant and one
 > of us finally said, "To quote Emerson: 'A foolish consistency is
 > the hobgoblin of little minds.'"
 >
 > "We latched on to this with ebullient joy and thereafter,
 > whenever the proofreader questioned a small inconsistency, we
 > would write "Emerson!" in the margin and let it go
 >
 > excerpted from Asimov's intro to "The Dying Night"
 > --
 > _____________________________________________________
 > Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
 > dannyb RemoveThis @panix.com
 > [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: counting the books